Arizona's New Immigration Law

[Rainy Parade]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Intersting coming from a Raider fan. Hmmm. I'm beginning to like you more and more.

i really hope that was sarcasm.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Let me ask you this, isn't it already a law that legal immigrants have like 10 yrs to become citizens? meaning taking the big test or they are shipped back to their country?

I'm not sure how long it takes for them to become a citizen but I have heard it takes yrs (ten yrs stands out). I was responding to why we should not fast track the system.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 2BIG2BSKINNY

Hey I know that this issue has very many views and it affects different people different ways... My brother and I are Musicians and have made a song about this issue (not playful) and would like for you all to listen to it.

"Keep Us Down (produced by KB)" by BIGGADENLYPHE (Bigger Than Life)

Tell me what you think... I trust that my fellow skins fans can handle things like adults!

Thanks in advance for taking the time to listen to the tracks.

You can listen to more of our music at
ReverbNation

Not a bad track.

I disagree with a lot of the premises and statements though. I really wish everyone would read the law before commenting on it. I posted the text of the law in Post # 26. This law is about enforcing existing laws on the books and shutting down sanctuary cities, not racial profiling.

I think the separation of "brown/black" vs. white is wrong. This is exactly what the powers that be want to see continue. As with most issues the politicans, CEOs (not all are rich Republicans, many are rich Democrats), and activists who head groups that receive gov't grants (environemental/community/etc.) all want this separation to continue so the free-for-all with our tax dollars when their appropriate party comes into power will continue. When we're bickering amongst ourselves and pointing fingers at each other for America's problems, we aren't looking at the folks who are really the cause of our problems.....our gov't and the groups that sustain themselves off it unfairly.

If we (as in the American people, all races) ever get our $hit together and realize we're being taken for a ride by these guys, then we can put a stop to it (if we don't, divided we fall). Don't forget the gov't spending spree that began under Bush 2 and has accelerated dramatically under Obama will hit the middle/lower classes hardest when the bills come due and our gov't spending is no longer sustainable (within the next few years). A VAT tax will proportionally hurt the middle/lower class (regardless of race) harder than the top 5%. Increased utility taxes embedded in our utility bills due to cap-n-trade and other environmental legislation will hit the middle/lower class harder. Increases in SS & Medicare percentages will hurt the middle/lower class and small business owners harder than CEOs, and politicians will exempt themselves. What is needed is fundamental tax reform (FairTax, flat tax, something of that nature) to take some of the control over exemptions and how tax deductions are distributed out of the politican's hands. It reduces their power on the collection side. They can still spend funds, but will be forced to scale back because if they have to implement a percentage increase on everyone, not just a select few, there will be greater backlash.

The "spread the wealth" comment I completely disagree with. Who gets to decide how the wealth is "spread around"? I'm not in the top 5% , but I'm doing OK to take care of my family. I work a full-time job and run a small business (65+ hour work weeks). Why should the money I earned from my hard work to take care of my family be taken (at an even more disproportionate rate than it is now), by the gov't and given to others, be they gov't employees, military contractors, recepients of social programs, or foreign gov'ts, or whatever?

Let's say your music takes off and you become successful at it (you may already be, I don't know) but not a millionaire. Is it fair that you should be taxed at a total rate of over 50% (not just Fed, all taxes) on your hard work and talent when others that haven't taken the initiative/risks you did pay nothng or almost nothing?

Just some stuff to think about. I get it, the target audience of the music isn't middle-aged white dudes, but I just wish we could all clear up misconceptions in our society and work together to tackle our country's problems.....yes, I'm the eternal optimist....sigh.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Rainy Parade

killing all the Cowboys fans would certainly be a good start.

YOU are a prophet.........

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Ok, so we make it real easy to become a legal citizen and then they become even a bigger burden on the system. From what I read most that come here illegaly are uneducated and thus have a limited means to make a good income. Now that they are legal it is much easier to access federal programs and cost us even moor money. It said the more educated, non violient, etc... are more likely to come here through illegal means. We have to make it somewhat of a long process or all we will get crossing is a bunch of dumb asses who will milk the system. I think we allready have enough of US citizens doing that now.

Sooo...you like the current "pass through border" program better?
AND we may have to slam the borders closed to immigration altogether? BUT, if we have effectively gained control of the borders...we could do that at will. Currently we have NO such option.
First, eliminate the attraction for illegals to come here. Add in a job ammendment such as CRedskins suggested through which some tax money might be generated and some of these Federal programs that get abused will be at least partially paid for. Because we now have legal immigrants.
Philosophically IMO, one of the largest problems the US faces is pissin' somebody off. We are no longer able to do what is necessary for the greater good of the whole for fear of making a particular group...mad?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Sooo...you like the current "pass through border" program better?
AND we may have to slam the borders closed to immigration altogether? BUT, if we have effectively gained control of the borders...we could do that at will. Currently we have NO such option.
First, eliminate the attraction for illegals to come here. Add in a job ammendment such as CRedskins suggested through which some tax money might be generated and some of these Federal programs that get abused will be at least partially paid for. Because we now have legal immigrants.
Philosophically IMO, one of the largest problems the US faces is pissin' somebody off. We are no longer able to do what is necessary for the greater good of the whole for fear of making a particular group...mad?

this makes too much sense for our current politicians

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Rainy Parade

i really hope that was sarcasm.

I'm guessing it wasn't

[2BIG2BSKINNY]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Not a bad track.

I disagree with a lot of the premises and statements though. I really wish everyone would read the law before commenting on it. I posted the text of the law in Post # 26. This law is about enforcing existing laws on the books and shutting down sanctuary cities, not racial profiling.

I think the separation of "brown/black" vs. white is wrong. This is exactly what the powers that be want to see continue. As with most issues the politicans, CEOs (not all are rich Republicans, many are rich Democrats), and activists who head groups that receive gov't grants (environemental/community/etc.) all want this separation to continue so the free-for-all with our tax dollars when their appropriate party comes into power will continue. When we're bickering amongst ourselves and pointing fingers at each other for America's problems, we aren't looking at the folks who are really the cause of our problems.....our gov't and the groups that sustain themselves off it unfairly.

If we (as in the American people, all races) ever get our $hit together and realize we're being taken for a ride by these guys, then we can put a stop to it (if we don't, divided we fall). Don't forget the gov't spending spree that began under Bush 2 and has accelerated dramatically under Obama will hit the middle/lower classes hardest when the bills come due and our gov't spending is no longer sustainable (within the next few years). A VAT tax will proportionally hurt the middle/lower class (regardless of race) harder than the top 5%. Increased utility taxes embedded in our utility bills due to cap-n-trade and other environmental legislation will hit the middle/lower class harder. Increases in SS & Medicare percentages will hurt the middle/lower class and small business owners harder than CEOs, and politicians will exempt themselves. What is needed is fundamental tax reform (FairTax, flat tax, something of that nature) to take some of the control over exemptions and how tax deductions are distributed out of the politican's hands. It reduces their power on the collection side. They can still spend funds, but will be forced to scale back because if they have to implement a percentage increase on everyone, not just a select few, there will be greater backlash.

The "spread the wealth" comment I completely disagree with. Who gets to decide how the wealth is "spread around"? I'm not in the top 5% , but I'm doing OK to take care of my family. I work a full-time job and run a small business (65+ hour work weeks). Why should the money I earned from my hard work to take care of my family be taken (at an even more disproportionate rate than it is now), by the gov't and given to others, be they gov't employees, military contractors, recepients of social programs, or foreign gov'ts, or whatever?

Let's say your music takes off and you become successful at it (you may already be, I don't know) but not a millionaire. Is it fair that you should be taxed at a total rate of over 50% (not just Fed, all taxes) on your hard work and talent when others that haven't taken the initiative/risks you did pay nothng or almost nothing?

Just some stuff to think about. I get it, the target audience of the music isn't middle-aged white dudes, but I just wish we could all clear up misconceptions in our society and work together to tackle our country's problems.....yes, I'm the eternal optimist....sigh.

Thank you for taking the time to listen to the track!

I understand that this is a issue that is not very easy to fix!
There are several issues that you may not agree with...

as minorities we need (hispanics) to draw from the experience and get unity from the African Americans... if for nothing else then it helps our numbers so that we get a voice.

It is not going to be a quick fix to this immigration problem as action on either side of this debate leads to more potential problems.

I just don't like the way it is being handled now!

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Not a bad track.

I disagree with a lot of the premises and statements though. I really wish everyone would read the law before commenting on it. I posted the text of the law in Post # 26. This law is about enforcing existing laws on the books and shutting down sanctuary cities, not racial profiling.

I think the separation of "brown/black" vs. white is wrong. This is exactly what the powers that be want to see continue. As with most issues the politicans, CEOs (not all are rich Republicans, many are rich Democrats), and activists who head groups that receive gov't grants (environemental/community/etc.) all want this separation to continue so the free-for-all with our tax dollars when their appropriate party comes into power will continue. When we're bickering amongst ourselves and pointing fingers at each other for America's problems, we aren't looking at the folks who are really the cause of our problems.....our gov't and the groups that sustain themselves off it unfairly.

If we (as in the American people, all races) ever get our $hit together and realize we're being taken for a ride by these guys, then we can put a stop to it (if we don't, divided we fall). Don't forget the gov't spending spree that began under Bush 2 and has accelerated dramatically under Obama will hit the middle/lower classes hardest when the bills come due and our gov't spending is no longer sustainable (within the next few years). A VAT tax will proportionally hurt the middle/lower class (regardless of race) harder than the top 5%. Increased utility taxes embedded in our utility bills due to cap-n-trade and other environmental legislation will hit the middle/lower class harder. Increases in SS & Medicare percentages will hurt the middle/lower class and small business owners harder than CEOs, and politicians will exempt themselves. What is needed is fundamental tax reform (FairTax, flat tax, something of that nature) to take some of the control over exemptions and how tax deductions are distributed out of the politican's hands. It reduces their power on the collection side. They can still spend funds, but will be forced to scale back because if they have to implement a percentage increase on everyone, not just a select few, there will be greater backlash.

The "spread the wealth" comment I completely disagree with. Who gets to decide how the wealth is "spread around"? I'm not in the top 5% , but I'm doing OK to take care of my family. I work a full-time job and run a small business (65+ hour work weeks). Why should the money I earned from my hard work to take care of my family be taken (at an even more disproportionate rate than it is now), by the gov't and given to others, be they gov't employees, military contractors, recepients of social programs, or foreign gov'ts, or whatever?

Let's say your music takes off and you become successful at it (you may already be, I don't know) but not a millionaire. Is it fair that you should be taxed at a total rate of over 50% (not just Fed, all taxes) on your hard work and talent when others that haven't taken the initiative/risks you did pay nothng or almost nothing?

Just some stuff to think about. I get it, the target audience of the music isn't middle-aged white dudes, but I just wish we could all clear up misconceptions in our society and work together to tackle our country's problems.....yes, I'm the eternal optimist....sigh.

Actually Sammy spread the wealth is the chief function of all economic systems including capitalism. Don't let Rush bully you. If all wealth is concentrated in the hands of a few then we cease to be a democracy we wind up being a kingdom. Let's say one an individual accumulates a trillion dollars then something is truly wrong, he will essentially own everything. The system fails at that point. He will then have to euthanized.

[joethiesmanfan]

Taxes are a reality. Even Jesus said give Ceasar what's Ceasar's. I think it is cynical to boost up gullible people with the intoxicating idea of no taxes. There is a finite sum of money and it must be spread to the benefit of society, or we learn lesson of history (i.e. Mari antoinette etc etc). Having said that we are taxed too much though.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Sooo...you like the current "pass through border" program better?
AND we may have to slam the borders closed to immigration altogether? BUT, if we have effectively gained control of the borders...we could do that at will. Currently we have NO such option.
First, eliminate the attraction for illegals to come here. Add in a job ammendment such as CRedskins suggested through which some tax money might be generated and some of these Federal programs that get abused will be at least partially paid for. Because we now have legal immigrants.
Philosophically IMO, one of the largest problems the US faces is pissin' somebody off. We are no longer able to do what is necessary for the greater good of the whole for fear of making a particular group...mad?

Why change what happeend to our traditonal values, tradional way of doing the border thing? I thought it was about keeping our heritage the same. Why the radical change at the border? It worked for the founding fathers it should work for us, right?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Taxes are a reality. Even Jesus said give Ceasar what's Ceasar's. I think it is cynical to boost up gullible people with the intoxicating idea of no taxes. There is a finite sum of money and it must be spread to the benefit of society, or we learn lesson of history (i.e. Mari antoinette etc etc). Having said that we are taxed too much though.

WHO has said no taxes? The discussion would be what is appropriate government spending, and then you set taxes, levies, tariffs, and other fees to meet that. When the government yearly takes more than 50% of some of it's citizens earnings, I would say that has gone a bit overboard.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Why change what happeend to our traditonal values, tradional way of doing the border thing? I thought it was about keeping our heritage the same. Why the radical change at the border? It worked for the founding fathers it should work for us, right?

We traditionally have been a very open society. It is only since the onset of gross overspending on government welfare that our borders have been an issue. When every person had to work for what they got, if more people came the better. Now that we have government safety nets, if people come simply to use those safety nets it overburdens our system.

See I can be as simplistic as you

[Rainy Parade]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

It worked for the founding fathers it should work for us, right?

they also had wooden teeth.

[Rainy Parade]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

WHO has said no taxes? The discussion would be what is appropriate government spending, and then you set taxes, levies, tariffs, and other fees to meet that. When the government yearly takes more than 50% of some of it's citizens earnings, I would say that has gone a bit overboard.

agree.... but the out-of-control defense spending needs to be in that discussion.