RG3 and Gruden?

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Originally Posted by Bucket

People don't seem to understand that bootlegs, roll-outs and moving the pocket only works if the run game is working. Our run game this year has struggled and that's mainly due to our TE's. We have not one TE on the roster that is solid all around.

People see Paulsen in the game and they stack the box because he can't out run anyone. If it's Jordan or Paul they just beat them to the edge and there is no seal for the zone read.

Which is why I'm hoping we invest in more traditional style running like the Seahawks do and get some more powerful lineman. Right now we have a mix of both and it's not working out. We have no identity.

If we move the pocket and have the lineman shift one way or another, it cuts the field in half and good defenses that are fast will just take advantage of that.

Robert needs to learn to throw from the pocket to be a consistent, and successful offense. Period.

Maybe, but he isn't that today

Right now we need to design the offense to his strengths and in the offseason work on his weaknesses.


Under Gibbs our teams were great at covering for the weaknesses of our QB's (Apart from maybe Theismann, none of our QB's under Gibbs were exactly superstars)

I don't see Gruden having the ability to do that

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by Avinash_Tyagi

Maybe, but he isn't that today

Right now we need to design the offense to his strengths and in the offseason work on his weaknesses.


Under Gibbs our teams were great at covering for the weaknesses of our QB's (Apart from maybe Theismann, none of our QB's under Gibbs were exactly superstars)

I don't see Gruden having the ability to do that

That's what people don't get. The most important fundamental for a NFL QB to have is anticipation. Cousins has it, and maybe to much at times but RG3 has 0. WR's don't run WIDE open like in college. An open WR in the NFL means 1-2 yds. That's why arm strength is so important. He needs to be able to anticipate routes and throw the ball. He doesn't, and that limits playcalling and the offense. You can't run read options on 3rd and 8 or run 8 routes from PA.

[diehardskin2982]

RG needs to reach out to two people IMO, Jeff Garcia and George Whitfield Jr.

Garcia was the best pocket presence QB I have seen. George trains Luck and others can be a benefit to rebuild Robert.

[Alvin Walton]

We dont have a pocket to teach from.
We have a house of cards in a stiff breeze.

I'd start using the shotgun ASAP.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Originally Posted by Bucket

That's what people don't get. The most important fundamental for a NFL QB to have is anticipation. Cousins has it, and maybe to much at times but RG3 has 0. WR's don't run WIDE open like in college. An open WR in the NFL means 1-2 yds. That's why arm strength is so important. He needs to be able to anticipate routes and throw the ball. He doesn't, and that limits playcalling and the offense. You can't run read options on 3rd and 8 or run 8 routes from PA.

Cousins has Anticipation?

Did he anticipate 9 Interceptions?

Yeah Cousins sure did great anticipating where the defenders would be when he threw the ball into their hands.

Again, if Gruden is a decent Coach, he'll be able to adjust his offense to play to Griffin's strengths and minimize the weaknesses

[BaltimoreSkins]

I think that is fine if Griffin was "pro ready" but he so far from it that we need to develop the skills. Waiting on the offseason to develop those skills only encourages those weaknesses, the longer they are practiced the longer they will take to break. I do think Gruden could've done a better job of working in the necessary skills while keeping the dynamics that make Robert a threat.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by Avinash_Tyagi

Cousins has Anticipation?

Did he anticipate 9 Interceptions?

Yeah Cousins sure did great anticipating where the defenders would be when he threw the ball into their hands.

Again, if Gruden is a decent Coach, he'll be able to adjust his offense to play to Griffin's strengths and minimize the weaknesses

i think good coaches can adjust and tweek elements of their scheme around a Qbs skill set .... but with RG3, you need to totally revamp any semblance of a pro passing attack.

griffins weaknesses >>>>>> griffins strengths (at this point)

i think RG3 could be a franchise QB, but he needs to accept where he is at and really put in the mental work needed. running more wind sprints is not needed.

these discussions are really becoming circular . . .

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by Avinash_Tyagi

Cousins has Anticipation?

Did he anticipate 9 Interceptions?

Yeah Cousins sure did great anticipating where the defenders would be when he threw the ball into their hands.

Again, if Gruden is a decent Coach, he'll be able to adjust his offense to play to Griffin's strengths and minimize the weaknesses

Okay.. So what do you think Gruden should do?

-RG3 can't read defenses really well so no audibles at the line.

-RG3 can't anticipate route concepts. So on third downs, he can't find the open WR because what IS OPEN. Doesn't look open to RG3.

-He doesn't really have time to throw even if he did go through his 2nd-3rd reads because the offensive line is built to move the pocket.

-The pocket can't really move because we dont run the ball effectively on 1st-2nd downs because teams KNOW we can't throw the ball. So they just stack the box. Not to mention our best hands on the team is our WORSE blocker in Jordan Reed.

-You can't run Read Option on 3rd and long.

-Always in 3rd n long because of running game problems.


Bottom line is....RG3 right now is struggling to learn an offense that he can't really learn because he has no time to progress. When he does have time, he doesn't pull the trigger because he has no anticipation.

Gruden needs more than a year to get some of his players he wants in and remove a lot of the Shanahan leftovers.

[diehardskin2982]

I think the solution is when both sides work together.

One- Hire the best QB coach they can find to give RG3 the instructions and work needed to succeed.

Two- Ease him into a prostyle offense. Start off with things he is good at giving RG a rhythm. Then start to add prostyle concepts

RG has to hire a private coach to help him work on his fundamentals in the offseason. As well as someone to watch film with him and help get better going through progressions.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Originally Posted by Bucket

Okay.. So what do you think Gruden should do?

If I knew what to do, I'd be a Football head Coach

I'm not, so its not my job to say what Gruden should do, I just know he's not done it and putting in Cousins is not the answer.

Originally Posted by over the mountain

with RG3, you need to totally revamp any semblance of a pro passing attack.

griffins weaknesses >>>>>> griffins strengths (at this point)

You won't turn RG3 into a skilled pocket passer overnight, that will take months, but you can adjust the playbook this week so that on Saturday we can compete.

Gruden gets paid millions to do the job. Its up to Gruden to redesign his playbook if need be, but make it work.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by Avinash_Tyagi

Gruden gets paid millions to do the job. Its up to Gruden to redesign his playbook if need be, but make it work.

i do think gruden could have done more to adjust to RG3.

gruden has a lot of hubris in his system. a lot of offensive and defensive coaches have total belief in their system.

i think gruden, in his first HC job, wants to run and be judged on his scheme .... not a make shift, hap hazard college style scheme.

i like what i saw from gruden's timing/pass attack scheme the first 10 games or so. the last couple games, i dont think we are even running a scheme.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by Avinash_Tyagi

If I knew what to do, I'd be a Football head Coach

I'm not, so its not my job to say what Gruden should do, I just know he's not done it and putting in Cousins is not the answer.



You won't turn RG3 into a skilled pocket passer overnight, that will take months, but you can adjust the playbook this week so that on Saturday we can compete.

Gruden gets paid millions to do the job. Its up to Gruden to redesign his playbook if need be, but make it work.

Holy shit. You just dont get it.

YOU CAN'T CHANGE A PLAYBOOK FOR A QB WHO CAN'T ANTICIPATE BASIC ROUTE CONCEPTS. You can't... Read Option was a feather in the cap. Now it's half as effective as it was. Not going to pull lB's up and live 9 routes open across the middle.

Eventually.. You have to be able to throw the ball to WR's with timing. RG3 can't do it..

The only effective gameplan for RG3 is running the ball and HOPING you end up in 3rd and 1-4 for the whole game.

[skinsfan69]

At this point moving forward to next year, Gruden needs to play the best QB that's on the roster. It's not his job to cater to Griffin because Griffin hasn't shown he can run a pro offense. He'll also be going in his 4th year. Yeah they can keep coaching him up, but at some point, the train can't sit on the platform for RG3. I think he's on the team next year cause of the owner, but he's going to be competing.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Avinash_Tyagi

Cousins has Anticipation?

Did he anticipate 9 Interceptions?

Yeah Cousins sure did great anticipating where the defenders would be when he threw the ball into their hands.

Again, if Gruden is a decent Coach, he'll be able to adjust his offense to play to Griffin's strengths and minimize the weaknesses

If you look at the QB play this year, who ran the offense the best? Who hit more big plays? When was the offense the most explosive? Hands down it was when KC was in there. Now the turnovers kill the team and they lose games. But he also threw a lot of TD's and moved the team. The WR's, which is suppose to be the strength of the team, were more involved. KC needs more coaching and playing time. That's painfully obvious. Is he mentally tough enough? Can he shake the turnovers? That remains to be seen. But he's shown enough that he deserves to be given the chance to compete for the job.

Meanwhile, Griffin in his 5 games hasn't really shown anything. No progress at all. Even jello arm McCoy has AT LEAST shown something. The RG3 hype, the "he needs a special offense" talk, it's old.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Originally Posted by Bucket

Holy shit. You just dont get it.

YOU CAN'T CHANGE A PLAYBOOK FOR A QB WHO CAN'T ANTICIPATE BASIC ROUTE CONCEPTS. You can't... Read Option was a feather in the cap. Now it's half as effective as it was. Not going to pull lB's up and live 9 routes open across the middle.

Eventually.. You have to be able to throw the ball to WR's with timing. RG3 can't do it..

The only effective gameplan for RG3 is running the ball and HOPING you end up in 3rd and 1-4 for the whole game.

They were able to build a plan for him in 2012, so its doable.

At this point moving forward to next year, Gruden needs to play the best QB that's on the roster. It's not his job to cater to Griffin because Griffin hasn't shown he can run a pro offense. He'll also be going in his 4th year. Yeah they can keep coaching him up, but at some point, the train can't sit on the platform for RG3. I think he's on the team next year cause of the owner, but he's going to be competing.

At the moment Griffin is the best QB Gruden has (Colt is too injured to play and Cousins throws Interceptions left and right)