Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey

[irish]

Originally Posted by Hog1

It's not a matter of Gibbs "not having confidence with PR". Gibbs would do what is necessary for the benefit of the team. He felt Brunell was a better fit this year. Obviously, he was correct. That does not mean PR has not improved, and could replace Brunell. Dude is 36! He may have to put Campbell away in the process. Like I said in an earlier post, it took SEVERAL seasons for Theismans to earn the job. I think your correct, PR will be an unhappy man, and will try to force a deal to leave.

Gibbs pulled PR in the 1st half of the 1st game of the season. PR had not had a chance to do anything good or bad. MB had done nothing last year and people wrote him off for dead but Gibbs believed (correctly) that MB could get the job done better than PR could. Had Gibbs believed PR could get the job done he would not have pulled PR in the 1st game.

If pulling someone (who Gibbs said all preseason was the starter) in the 1st half of the 1st game of the year and replacing him with someone who was a complete stiff the year before is not a lack of confidence, I dont know what is.

[MTK]

Comparing how the two QBs looked all summer it's easy to see why Gibbs gave PR the quick hook when the opportunity presented itself. I don't know how we can even question the decision now considering how the season turned out.

10-6, playoffs, what more is there to say?

[Daseal]

I still think the real QB market will be shown when Volek and SChaub's futures with TN and ATL are known.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Comparing how the two QBs looked all summer it's easy to see why Gibbs gave PR the quick hook when the opportunity presented itself. I don't know how we can even question the decision now considering how the season turned out.

10-6, playoffs, what more is there to say?

You are joking right? There was nobody on this site (or DC for that matter)that thought MB should be the starter and with Gibbs saying PR is the starter all anyone would say is Gibbs says he's the starter so he's the starter. What opportunity presented itself in the 1st half of the 1st game that was so obvious that PR could not get it done? There was none, Gibbs did not have confidence in PR and he had confidence in MB so MB went into the game. Its obvious now that Gibbs made the correct decision but in Sept it didnt appear so.

[backrow]

Originally Posted by Master4Caster

I am old school ...

Much as Mark Brunell has done this year, he will be 36 next season. Jurgensen retired at about that age. Ramsey will be a better package next season than Campbell.

You may be Old School, but I'm Old Dirt!

I see MB calling it quits after the end of this season. He proved that he wasn't washed up, and he wants to go out on a high note, not as a has-been. The man has a ton of class!

PRam will inherit the Redskin earth!



A "We want DaBux!" smilie needed here!

[MTK]

Originally Posted by irish

You are joking right? There was nobody on this site (or DC for that matter)that thought MB should be the starter and with Gibbs saying PR is the starter all anyone would say is Gibbs says he's the starter so he's the starter. What opportunity presented itself in the 1st half of the 1st game that was so obvious that PR could not get it done? There was none, Gibbs did not have confidence in PR and he had confidence in MB so MB went into the game. Its obvious now that Gibbs made the correct decision but in Sept it didnt appear so.

What is there to joke about?

PR looked shaky all preseason, and Brunell looked sharp. I don't see how that can be disputed.

Gibbs was obviously looking/hoping for Ramsey to seal the deal in the offseason, take take the job and run with it. Can you say he really did that?

Of course Gibbs didn't have much confidence in him, despite the fact the majority of fans supported Gibbs' claim that Ramsey was the starter, I guarantee you in the back of our minds we were all concerned given Ramsey's mediocre showing during the preseason.

I love how people make it seem like Ramsey was tearing it up during the 1st half of the Bears game. He threw a pick and fumbled twice, to Gibbs he had seen enough and couple that with his unimpressive offseason, he made the quick hook.

The opportunity that presented itself that I was referring to was when Ramsey went down, that was all Gibbs needed to get Brunell back in.

[#56fanatic]

Ramsey is going to be in the same situation he was here. He is not going to be brought in and handed the team, "here its yours, here are the keys" He is going to have to compete with a veteran, or maybe a draft pick to earn the spot. I would bet its not going to be here.

[Ade Jimoh Fan Club]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

PR looked shaky all preseason, and Brunell looked sharp. I don't see how that can be disputed.

Gibbs was obviously looking/hoping for Ramsey to seal the deal in the offseason, take take the job and run with it. Can you say he really did that?

I agree Matty. It's unbelievable how people on this site forget how INCONSISTENT and MEDIOCRE Ramsey is. He's had a few good games to give us false hope - sandwiched between a bunch of bad games.

He's a good QB and a good guy, but not the guy we want "for the future." We need to get whatever we can for him and move on. If he wants to take a pay cut and remain as a back-up - that's great! But not the starter.

I mean, he did OK in the Giants game, but that was actually a pretty sorry throw to Moss and an INCREDIBLE catch. Without that play, his numbers wouldn't look that great.

Let's trade Ramsey, and if Brunell calls it quits, then we go with Campbell. If he stinks it up then we find another option. RAMSEY AIN'T IT!

[bigmarley4]

These scenarios we are talking about are far-fetched, to say the least. We can't afford to have MB around for 1-2 years while keeping PR and JC around and happy. We invested a #1 pick in JC, he is the future QB of this organization. He should definitely be the #2 guy next year, so he can take over the year after. In this day and age you just can't have your future QB waiting around 3-5 years to maybe have a shot at playing. Obviously that has worked for some QB's in the past (JT, Steve Young, Brad Johnson, etc) but the best QB's in the NFL have learned under fire. Peyton started his 1st year, as did Eli (halfway through). Brees started every year he has been in the NFL. Palmer sat one year behind Kitna before starting. Which top-tier QB's in the league sat for an extended amount of time (2+ yrs) before getting a chance to start?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by bigmarley4

These scenarios we are talking about are far-fetched, to say the least. We can't afford to have MB around for 1-2 years while keeping PR and JC around and happy. We invested a #1 pick in JC, he is the future QB of this organization. He should definitely be the #2 guy next year, so he can take over the year after. In this day and age you just can't have your future QB waiting around 3-5 years to maybe have a shot at playing. Obviously that has worked for some QB's in the past (JT, Steve Young, Brad Johnson, etc) but the best QB's in the NFL have learned under fire. Peyton started his 1st year, as did Eli (halfway through). Brees started every year he has been in the NFL. Palmer sat one year behind Kitna before starting. Which top-tier QB's in the league sat for an extended amount of time (2+ yrs) before getting a chance to start?

I totally agree with this. If Campbell isn't the #2 next year, then I think that sends a message to everyone that he is not developing as was hoped. Given his history as a first round pick that Gibbs traded a small farm for, and given that he's had a chance to be coached and watch Brunell, and given that the offensive line next year will be strong, I see absolutely positively no reason why he should not be capable of #2 status. I have heard nothing, NOTHING suggesting that he is having a hard time developing. Just because we haven't heard anything on the guy doesn't mean he's not coming along, after all, we've been pretty busy hearing all about things like Portis and Moss setting records, Arrington's discontent, and making the playoffs!

If Ramsey wants a different situation, Gibbs will accomodate him and trade him. Gibbs doesn't like to keep guys that don't want to be here. It's just that a better situation for Ramsey won't mean a clear cut starting job. It will mean a chance to compete with one other guy for the starting job, instead of competing with Brunell in the short term and Campbell in the long term.

[Schneed10]

Just overall, I think we shouldn't get our hopes up too high in what we'll get in return for Ramsey, despite what Mortensen says. As Redskin fans, I think a lot of us tend to think highly of PR and try to look at the times when he has flashed his potential and put up good games. But we seem to forget all the inconsistency, the holding onto the ball until a DE causes a fumble, the inability to scramble, and the deep-ball inaccuracy. Ramsey has not done anything in this league for any non-Redskin fan (or any non-Redskin GM) to believe he is the next QB for their team. He's very comparable to Joey Harrington in trade value, if you ask me. What would you trade for Joey Harrington to join your team? I don't know if I'd give a 3rd rounder.

If we get better than a 3rd rounder for Ramsey, that's gravy to me. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised. But I'm not getting my hopes up, he just hasn't done enough in this league to warrant a big trade offer.

[amorentz]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Just overall, I think we shouldn't get our hopes up too high in what we'll get in return for Ramsey, despite what Mortensen says. As Redskin fans, I think a lot of us tend to think highly of PR and try to look at the times when he has flashed his potential and put up good games. But we seem to forget all the inconsistency, the holding onto the ball until a DE causes a fumble, the inability to scramble, and the deep-ball inaccuracy. Ramsey has not done anything in this league for any non-Redskin fan (or any non-Redskin GM) to believe he is the next QB for their team. He's very comparable to Joey Harrington in trade value, if you ask me. What would you trade for Joey Harrington to join your team? I don't know if I'd give a 3rd rounder.

If we get better than a 3rd rounder for Ramsey, that's gravy to me. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised. But I'm not getting my hopes up, he just hasn't done enough in this league to warrant a big trade offer.

I would definitely agree with this sentiment...I remember a lot of excitement over what we would get for "former first round pick" Rod Gardner. What we got wasnt much, though it even though it later proved to be way too much!

Frankly, the rumors I heard about John Abraham consisted of Ramsey AND Arrington, and getting a #1 pick for Ramsey is nonsense in my opinion. A 3rd is what Im thinking, and my thought when starting this thread was that the Rivers/Brees issue might bump us up in the round or even into the 2nd...

[irish]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

What is there to joke about?

PR looked shaky all preseason, and Brunell looked sharp. I don't see how that can be disputed.

Gibbs was obviously looking/hoping for Ramsey to seal the deal in the offseason, take take the job and run with it. Can you say he really did that?

Of course Gibbs didn't have much confidence in him, despite the fact the majority of fans supported Gibbs' claim that Ramsey was the starter, I guarantee you in the back of our minds we were all concerned given Ramsey's mediocre showing during the preseason.

I love how people make it seem like Ramsey was tearing it up during the 1st half of the Bears game. He threw a pick and fumbled twice, to Gibbs he had seen enough and couple that with his unimpressive offseason, he made the quick hook.

The opportunity that presented itself that I was referring to was when Ramsey went down, that was all Gibbs needed to get Brunell back in.

PR did look shakey in the preseason and MB did look sharp but as many were saying, PR was playing against the starters and MB was playing against the scrubs. So comparisons were hard to make. I guess my point is that now every skins fan makes it sound like MB was the obvious choice to be the starter when all the signs showed otherwise. I also recall lots of people who are now saying PR is average and inconsistent in the past saying how he was the QB of the future. PR has the same stats now as he did when he was proclaimed the QB of the future (because he hasnt played at all to change them). So the only thing that changed is MB did the job and PR never got the cahnce because Gibbs didnt have confidence that he could.

For the record, I was not a PR fan (as you may remember my preseason prediction which was 3 week off), and I thought MB was washed up, so going into this season I thopught the skins were screwed at QB. I was only sort of correct.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by irish

PR did look shakey in the preseason and MB did look sharp but as many were saying, PR was playing against the starters and MB was playing against the scrubs. So comparisons were hard to make. I guess my point is that now every skins fan makes it sound like MB was the obvious choice to be the starter when all the signs showed otherwise. I also recall lots of people who are now saying PR is average and inconsistent in the past saying how he was the QB of the future. PR has the same stats now as he did when he was proclaimed the QB of the future (because he hasnt played at all to change them). So the only thing that changed is MB did the job and PR never got the cahnce because Gibbs didnt have confidence that he could.

For the record, I was not a PR fan (as you may remember my preseason prediction which was 3 week off), and I thought MB was washed up, so going into this season I thopught the skins were screwed at QB. I was only sort of correct.

I didn't mean to say Brunell was the obvious choice, I had my doubts just as I'm sure everyone else did when he first came in for the reasons you pointed out. He looked good against mostly backups in the preseason so the doubt was there that he could keep it going against starters.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Master4caster:

You neglected to mention a couple of QBs who started in their rookie years who seem to have done pretty well. I'm thinking of Peyton Manning and Donovan McNabb (not till about the 10th game of rookie season) here. Going back a bit further, Drew Bledsoe and Troy Aikman started as rookies. Bledsoe has been to a Super Bowl; Aikman has three rings and will be in the HoF later this year. Other names that come to mind are Terry Bradshaw and Fran Tarkenton; they worked out all right too.


The only way Ramsey stays here next year is if his contract is "cap friendly". In the final year of some rookie deals, the baloon payment makes the contract a burden; I don't know what Ramsey's deal calls for next year. I do know that unless Brunell suffers a major injury, Patrick Ramsey will not start another game in Washington. By the time Brunell is ready to hit the showers, Jason Campbell will be the heir to the throne.