Brunell is Bad

[MTK]

I know the Parrot doesn't need a supporting cast, he's a one bird wrecking crew.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by GoSkins!

Everyone here is looking for interesting topics and insight and I understand the newbies are always going to have a little trouble adjusting. You seem to be posting a lot so I guess you just stick out more right now.

Just click the "forum" click on the home page. Then click "locker room". You can look through the existing threads until you find one with the topic you are looking to talk about. Then post your opinion and it will automagically jump to first in line on the homepage! If you don't find your topic, then by all means, post a new thread!

Just for the record, Brunnel had a very good year. My concern is that I don't know if he can reproduce his production next year.

Reproduce? If he can't get better we are in trouble. If we don't put a very dominant defense on the field Brunell isn't going to win games, if we fielded an average defense, everyone hear would be calling for his head right now. There is nothing special about a QB who is out there just trying not to lose games, you can sign the trent Dilfers of the world at a very reasonable price to do that, good QB's win with average defenses, and they win super bowls with good defenses.

[Daseal]

I've never felt comfortable with Brunell behind center. Never liked the way we acquired him and have a constant feeling of impending doom when he drops back and doesnt hand off to Portis. However, I will be the first to admit he made some spectacular plays this season. Especially in Dallas, and every now and then he'd throw a ball perfectly into coverage that made you say "wow." Even with that, I don't feel that's enough to keep him here and I really thought Ramsey could have done a much better job than Brunell this season. While he'll definitely turn the ball over more, he'll also put up a lot more yards and spread the ball around a lot more than Brunell.

I may be wrong in this, but I think we save a lot of money cutting Brunell, I'd feel much more confident cutting Brunell and keeping a cheap Ramsey to compete with Campbell for the starting job.

Brunell's biggest downfall is when he gets at all hurt, he starts to make Ryan Leaf look like a good pickup. He won't pull himself out, Gibbs won't pull him out, and all he does is hurt the game. One play, in particular, made me nervous about Brunell last year. I think we can all remember Cooley trotting, wide open, along the back of the endzone. While Brunell stared at him the whole time before finally throwing the ball what seemed like hours later. During this time a defensive player locked onto Brunells eyes and was pretty close to Cooley by the time he caught it. After this he said he just had to make sure he was open. Granted he made that one, but how many potential plays did he miss.

I simply don't feel confident with Brunell behind center, while he had few interceptions, like an above poster said, his fumbles were pretty bad. At least Ramsey throws INT's 40 yards up field near the receiver.

[Sean Taylor is God]

There is no need to apologize. I wrote my comments to instigate people and it has worked. Before you can clean the rug you must agitate it to make the dirt rise. I had Brunell on my fantasy team and found him quite servicable. I think that his price and age are troublesome and I did not feel confident in his ability to lead us down the field with the game on the line.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Daseal

One play, in particular, made me nervous about Brunell last year. I think we can all remember Cooley trotting, wide open, along the back of the endzone. While Brunell stared at him the whole time before finally throwing the ball what seemed like hours later.

If you're talking about the 2nd Dallas game that was actually a good play on Brunell's part I thought, he simply waited to make sure Cooley was open and that he had a good throwing angle.

[dmek25]

alright stisgod we are going after jeff george this off season because according to you ,all you need to suceed is a cannon for an arm.we made the playoffs,,taking one step at a time i trust coach gibbs!do you?

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I've never felt comfortable with Brunell behind center. Never liked the way we acquired him and have a constant feeling of impending doom when he drops back and doesnt hand off to Portis. However, I will be the first to admit he made some spectacular plays this season. Especially in Dallas, and every now and then he'd throw a ball perfectly into coverage that made you say "wow." Even with that, I don't feel that's enough to keep him here and I really thought Ramsey could have done a much better job than Brunell this season. While he'll definitely turn the ball over more, he'll also put up a lot more yards and spread the ball around a lot more than Brunell.

I may be wrong in this, but I think we save a lot of money cutting Brunell, I'd feel much more confident cutting Brunell and keeping a cheap Ramsey to compete with Campbell for the starting job.

Brunell's biggest downfall is when he gets at all hurt, he starts to make Ryan Leaf look like a good pickup. He won't pull himself out, Gibbs won't pull him out, and all he does is hurt the game. One play, in particular, made me nervous about Brunell last year. I think we can all remember Cooley trotting, wide open, along the back of the endzone. While Brunell stared at him the whole time before finally throwing the ball what seemed like hours later. During this time a defensive player locked onto Brunells eyes and was pretty close to Cooley by the time he caught it. After this he said he just had to make sure he was open. Granted he made that one, but how many potential plays did he miss.

I simply don't feel confident with Brunell behind center, while he had few interceptions, like an above poster said, his fumbles were pretty bad. At least Ramsey throws INT's 40 yards up field near the receiver.

Agreed!

I also find it funny that the prevailing thought is that Ramsey won't continue to grow and get better as he gets more comfortable in Gibbs offense.

[GoSkins!]

Originally Posted by offiss

Reproduce? If he can't get better we are in trouble. If we don't put a very dominant defense on the field Brunell isn't going to win games, if we fielded an average defense, everyone hear would be calling for his head right now. There is nothing special about a QB who is out there just trying not to lose games, you can sign the trent Dilfers of the world at a very reasonable price to do that, good QB's win with average defenses, and they win super bowls with good defenses.

Maybe we can agree on this:

maybe Brunnel is better than you think
AND
maybe Ramsey is better than Gibbs thinks.

To me, Brunnel looked good when he had to open up the offense ?(KC, Denver, Dallas...), but there is no doubt that defenses would have backed off if Ramsey was back there and the line could protect him. I'll be interested to see what Saunders thinks if Ramsey stays.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by GoSkins!

Maybe we can agree on this:

maybe Brunnel is better than you think
AND
maybe Ramsey is better than Gibbs thinks.

To me, Brunnel looked good when he had to open up the offense ?(KC, Denver, Dallas...), but there is no doubt that defenses would have backed off if Ramsey was back there and the line could protect him. I'll be interested to see what Saunders thinks if Ramsey stays.

I am very interested in Saunders evaluation of the situation will be as well, but I have a feeling Ramsey will be out of hear before he has a chance to do so, as we close in on draft day something is probably going to happen maybe even on draft day, right now things are up in the air on which direction teams with QB needs are going to go, once that straightens itself out Patrick will probably be on the move, to bad for us IMO.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I've never felt comfortable with Brunell behind center. Never liked the way we acquired him and have a constant feeling of impending doom when he drops back and doesnt hand off to Portis. However, I will be the first to admit he made some spectacular plays this season. Especially in Dallas, and every now and then he'd throw a ball perfectly into coverage that made you say "wow." Even with that, I don't feel that's enough to keep him here and I really thought Ramsey could have done a much better job than Brunell this season. While he'll definitely turn the ball over more, he'll also put up a lot more yards and spread the ball around a lot more than Brunell.

I may be wrong in this, but I think we save a lot of money cutting Brunell, I'd feel much more confident cutting Brunell and keeping a cheap Ramsey to compete with Campbell for the starting job.

Brunell's biggest downfall is when he gets at all hurt, he starts to make Ryan Leaf look like a good pickup. He won't pull himself out, Gibbs won't pull him out, and all he does is hurt the game. One play, in particular, made me nervous about Brunell last year. I think we can all remember Cooley trotting, wide open, along the back of the endzone. While Brunell stared at him the whole time before finally throwing the ball what seemed like hours later. During this time a defensive player locked onto Brunells eyes and was pretty close to Cooley by the time he caught it. After this he said he just had to make sure he was open. Granted he made that one, but how many potential plays did he miss.

I simply don't feel confident with Brunell behind center, while he had few interceptions, like an above poster said, his fumbles were pretty bad. At least Ramsey throws INT's 40 yards up field near the receiver.

Couple of points of contention.. First, cutting Brunell would acutally cost $300K more than keeping him.. Brunell had his best season in years and easily the best season for a Redskins QB since Brad Johnson in 1999 and Ramsey could have done better? How much better are you looking for? You admitted that Ramsey would probably turn the ball over more, how is that an improvement? Brunell certainly isn't the picture of youth or ideal health but I feel 200% better going into the season with him as the starter than I would Ramsey..

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by GoSkins!

Maybe we can agree on this:

maybe Brunnel is better than you think
AND
maybe Ramsey is better than Gibbs thinks.

To me, Brunnel looked good when he had to open up the offense ?(KC, Denver, Dallas...), but there is no doubt that defenses would have backed off if Ramsey was back there and the line could protect him. I'll be interested to see what Saunders thinks if Ramsey stays.

I would think that with Gibbs given Ramsey the OK to seak a trade gives us some insight to what Saunders thinks of him. Saunders had to of looked at game film and pratice film of Ramsey befor they gave him the Ok to go looking for a trade. If for one minute Saunders thought Ramsey should be the starter or could be the starter of the team he would not be looking for a trade.

[Daseal]

Paintrain, read my post and I explain how. Ramsey would have given us a better TOP, more passing yards, more TDs, and more INTs. However he'd have far fewer fumbles than Brunell. Ramsey did more in slightly over one quarter in the first game than Brunell was able to pull out in the remainder of it. This was a good defense he was playing very well against.

I think the total amount of turnovers would have been similar, but Ramsey would have had more, yet we would have scored more and had more players worked into the mix. Easily the best season since 1999, big deal, this was "Easily the best season" for every Redskin since 1999, we made the playoffs. Little of that, in my opinion, had to do with the great play of Mark Brunell.

I guess I'm wrong about his contract, I thought the restructure last year made him even easier to cut this year. I could definitely be wrong here.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Couple of points of contention.. First, cutting Brunell would acutally cost $300K more than keeping him.. Brunell had his best season in years and easily the best season for a Redskins QB since Brad Johnson in 1999 and Ramsey could have done better? How much better are you looking for? You admitted that Ramsey would probably turn the ball over more, how is that an improvement? Brunell certainly isn't the picture of youth or ideal health but I feel 200% better going into the season with him as the starter than I would Ramsey..

Come on man whats a few turn overs every game. Who needs to play field position and who cares that we toss a few to the other guys in the red zone. We can make all that up on a few long passes. Gibbs is just blind to all of Ramsey's tallent and is not going to look like a fool for picking up Brunell. Thats his guy!

[MTK]

Originally Posted by offiss

I am very interested in Saunders evaluation of the situation will be as well, but I have a feeling Ramsey will be out of hear before he has a chance to do so, as we close in on draft day something is probably going to happen maybe even on draft day, right now things are up in the air on which direction teams with QB needs are going to go, once that straightens itself out Patrick will probably be on the move, to bad for us IMO.

I'd think if Saunders felt strongly about keeping Ramsey then Gibbs would have listened.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Sean Taylor is God

I'm not going to dazzle you with numbers or deep theory. I just want to see where this goes. I have been concerned with the aquisition of a #2 WR when somone posed that it is Brunell's fault not Patten's. He is absolutely right. I have never been sold on him but what little offensive success we saw last year had little to do with his play and more to do with individual great plays, good team strategy, and a great offensive line. Our most successful pass plays were quick screen's to Moss and Cooley, and passes in the flat to Sellars. This requires nothing from the QB but delivery and every 3rd QB in the league can give you delivery. Our success on these passes were due to great blocks and moss's speed. At no point did Brunell demonstrate an ability to read coverages and complete passes down the middle of the field. The long ball consisted of him throwing it as far as his weak arm could muster and have speedy Moss outrun coverage. He rarely even attempts down the field passes and when he does they make me sad. Honestly, I tear up. His willingness to throw the ball away is something for review, and he has no problem punting the ball away. I often feel that he does not want the ball and would prefer that the other team's offense had it so the defense would be responsible. We have four arguable top-5 at their position lineman who provided remarkable protection last year. Barring injuries they should be better next year, but hopefully the guy responsible for getting the ball out of the pocket will be calm, assertive, and not mark brunell.


PS- I was just watching a recording of Gibbs at the combine. I love him. And I love you.

4 top 5 linemen? who would those be? not dockery or rabach... and jansen and samuels are alright, but neither is top 5. (samuels is althletic enough to be in the top 5, but he's too inconsistant). thomas i would say is undoubtedly top 5, but 1/5 is a lot less than 4/5.

brunell threw deep fine. see dallas, see 49ers, etc... moss was in the top 3 in 40+ yard passes. most of his screen stuff went for 10-20 yards, not 40+.

brunell does have the running qb menality where he looks 1,2 and tosses it or runs or dump it off where (good) pocket passers tend to get an extra read in. he's actually good at what he does, but lossing patten really hurt and at the end of the year he was obviously banged up and playing very poorly. that' a far cry from saying he's just outright bad though. The protection wasn't remarkable though, it was average to slightly above average... which would be appaling if we actually did have 4/5 Olinemen that were top5 at their positions.