Overrated/Underrated

SmootSmack · 05-20-2004, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

That is what seperates the great QB's from the average QB, being able to take a shot and be confident enough in your own abilities to believe that you can make or take that long shot everytime.

Is it just me or does anyone else think this describes Jeff George?

I don't think you can categorize Tom Brady as overrated. True, Vinatieri got those field goals but it was Brady who led the drives to get them in that position

Redskins8588 · 05-20-2004, 07:50 PM

Jeff George is a bum, that was the worst move the redskins ever made!!! Jeff George is the only QB that spells TEAM with an I!!! I should have added that the great QB will also care about the team first. Jeff George is probably the only exception.

Tom Brady did indeed lead the drives to allow Vinatieri to make the field goals, but when Vinatieri went on the field to both times all the presure, the season, and even maybe his career were on the line with those GAME WINNING kicks.

Look at what happened to Steve Cristie(sp) when he missed the field goal that would have let the Bills beat the Giants in the super bowl, he went down hill after that, even though it was Jim Kelly, now in the hall of fame, that led the drive to allow him to attempt that kick. The Bills whole season came down to how good there kicker was, and not who led the drive.

QUESTION: With out Vinatieri do the Pats still win the Super Bowl both or even 1 time?

SmootSmack · 05-20-2004, 08:14 PM

You mean Scott Norwood 8588, but I think I see your point. You're saying that what Brady did in the Super Bowl ultimately wasn't as important as Vinatieri stepping in under all that pressure and winning the game with the field goals. And if he doesn't make those then Brady is just another QB who wasn't able to win the big game for his team. Am I more or less right? I don't want to put words in your mouth

I should add that while I don't think Brady is overrated when he starts getting compared to Joe Montana that is taking it a bit too far this early in his career.

SKINSnCANES · 05-20-2004, 08:22 PM

We played Tom Brady last season, and if you guys remember his arm was so bruised and messed up that he had that protective sleeve on his throwing arm. He played through a lot of pain and went 25-38 for 289 against us, in the preseason he picked us apart. Tom Brady doesnt have great receivers in my opinon, Troy Brown is getting old but is still a solid receiver. I dont think they had a great running game with Antoine Smith who wasnt very consistent. I have to say that Tom Brady led that team. If everyone thinks hes not that good why didnt Bledsoe win a couple superbowls with the Patriots, hes got the strong arm? Brady is a leader and has done a solid job in NE. Youd think he would have more credit after getting a second super bowl... They team is even better this year in my opinion, doesnt mean they will win the super bowl but they will be in the hunt with Brady and the healm.

Redskins8588 · 05-20-2004, 08:45 PM

smootsmack, My bad on that, your right I meant Norwood. Also I think you get my point. But I never compared him to Joe Montana. Does he have the ability to be that good? Maybe, but I agree it is too early to tell.

SKINSnCANES, if they are as good as you say with Brady, then why didn't they do much in the 2002 season? With the exception of some players the Pats were pretty much the same team.

hi-jinx · 05-20-2004, 10:22 PM

Ya kow quite a few of us think Lavar may be overrated and/or overpaid. I would love to see a poll along those lines.(hint, hint)

MTK · 05-20-2004, 10:34 PM

2 rings in his first 4 seasons is a hell of a start for Brady. Another ring and the Montana comparisons will really start flying. He's got alot of ball left to go.

Drift Reality · 05-20-2004, 11:23 PM

Overrated - Keyshawn Johnson. This guy doesn't get any separation any longer (except against us last year) and talks way too much for someone who isn't much of a playmaker. He is a good possession receiver, but that's about it.

PSUskinsfan11 · 05-21-2004, 12:15 AM

Wow I can't wait till LaVar has an amazing year back at the weakside and all of you haters are eating your words.

BrudLee · 05-21-2004, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

Jeff George is a bum, that was the worst move the redskins ever made!!! Jeff George is the only QB that spells TEAM with an I!!! I should have added that the great QB will also care about the team first. Jeff George is probably the only exception.

Tom Brady did indeed lead the drives to allow Vinatieri to make the field goals, but when Vinatieri went on the field to both times all the presure, the season, and even maybe his career were on the line with those GAME WINNING kicks.

Look at what happened to Steve Cristie(sp) when he missed the field goal that would have let the Bills beat the Giants in the super bowl, he went down hill after that, even though it was Jim Kelly, now in the hall of fame, that led the drive to allow him to attempt that kick. The Bills whole season came down to how good there kicker was, and not who led the drive.

QUESTION: With out Vinatieri do the Pats still win the Super Bowl both or even 1 time?

I think they probably win both. In the first Pats win, Vinatieri did hit the game winner with time expiring - but the score was tied at the time. I remember Madden saying that the Pats shouldn't be trying, and should just prepare for OT. So it was a great clutch kick, but the game was in play if he missed it, which has to reduce the pressure.

Lost in last year's heroics, was the truly average season and post season Vinatieri had. He was a 73 percent kicker during the season, and was 7 for 10 in the post-season. We've run guys out on a rail for less. Vinatieri is in a great situation where his teammates have faith in him, and his contract provides job security. He's also on a team which gives him the chance to make Super Bowl winning kicks - something that 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try.

Redskins8588 · 05-21-2004, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

2 rings in his first 4 seasons is a hell of a start for Brady. Another ring and the Montana comparisons will really start flying. He's got alot of ball left to go.

sounds like in your opinion Brady was the reason for the Pats going and winning both super bowls, you don't think that the defense had anything to do with Brady getting 2 rings in his first 4 seasons?

BrudLee - "He's also on a team which gives him the chance to make Super Bowl winning kicks - something that 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try."

You are right 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try to kick the GAME WINNING field goal, but IMO there are only a handful of kickers that could do that with all the pressure and Vinatieri is IMO probably the best clutch kicker in the game. If he misses that GAME WINNING kick 2 years ago against the Raiders the Pats do not go on and win the super bowl.

BrudLee · 05-21-2004, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

BrudLee - "He's also on a team which gives him the chance to make Super Bowl winning kicks - something that 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try."

You are right 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try to kick the GAME WINNING field goal, but IMO there are only a handful of kickers that could do that with all the pressure and Vinatieri is IMO probably the best clutch kicker in the game. If he misses that GAME WINNING kick 2 years ago against the Raiders the Pats do not go on and win the super bowl.

No doubt 8588, he's in the top three or four in his profession. I just don't think he's the main reason the Pats won those championships, which some previous posts semmed to alude to. The defense, some clutch passing to smart receivers (get out of bounds!!!), and great special teams play were all part of the winning equation.

MTK · 05-21-2004, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

sounds like in your opinion Brady was the reason for the Pats going and winning both super bowls, you don't think that the defense had anything to do with Brady getting 2 rings in his first 4 seasons?

BrudLee - "He's also on a team which gives him the chance to make Super Bowl winning kicks - something that 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try."

You are right 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try to kick the GAME WINNING field goal, but IMO there are only a handful of kickers that could do that with all the pressure and Vinatieri is IMO probably the best clutch kicker in the game. If he misses that GAME WINNING kick 2 years ago against the Raiders the Pats do not go on and win the super bowl.

Sounds like you're not giving any credit at all to Brady. The first SB win I can see your point a bit more, but Brady has definitely proved that he's a big-time QB capable of taking his team all the way. I'm not saying Brady was the only reason for their two SB wins, but he was a big part of it.

Of course defense had something to do with it, but what team doesn't win the SB without a solid team effort across the board, defense, ST, etc.??

I give alot of credit to Vinatieri, he's definitely a clutch kicker, but I just have a hard time giving more credit for two championship seasons to a kicker over a QB.

offiss · 05-21-2004, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Sounds like you're not giving any credit at all to Brady. The first SB win I can see your point a bit more, but Brady has definitely proved that he's a big-time QB capable of taking his team all the way. I'm not saying Brady was the only reason for their two SB wins, but he was a big part of it.

Of course defense had something to do with it, but what team doesn't win the SB without a solid team effort across the board, defense, ST, etc.??

I give alot of credit to Vinatieri, he's definitely a clutch kicker, but I just have a hard time giving more credit for two championship seasons to a kicker over a QB.

I think a more telling sign about Brady is this, would new england have won those SB's with Bledsoe running the show? IMO no.

skin4Life28 · 05-21-2004, 01:18 PM

I love Lavar and his energy that he brings to the game. I would have to say so far he has not really proven anything yet. He doesnt even have a 100 tackle season. For those who are saying Urlacher is overrated are crazy. The man has had in all of his four seasons 100 plus tackles. If you compare the two players you tell me who has done more.

View Poll Results: Overrated Redskins
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05-20-2004, 08:14 PM	#33
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	You mean Scott Norwood 8588, but I think I see your point. You're saying that what Brady did in the Super Bowl ultimately wasn't as important as Vinatieri stepping in under all that pressure and winning the game with the field goals. And if he doesn't make those then Brady is just another QB who wasn't able to win the big game for his team. Am I more or less right? I don't want to put words in your mouth I should add that while I don't think Brady is overrated when he starts getting compared to Joe Montana that is taking it a bit too far this early in his career. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You Last edited by SmootSmack; 05-20-2004 at 08:22 PM.

05-20-2004, 08:22 PM	#34
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 44 Posts: 5,455	We played Tom Brady last season, and if you guys remember his arm was so bruised and messed up that he had that protective sleeve on his throwing arm. He played through a lot of pain and went 25-38 for 289 against us, in the preseason he picked us apart. Tom Brady doesnt have great receivers in my opinon, Troy Brown is getting old but is still a solid receiver. I dont think they had a great running game with Antoine Smith who wasnt very consistent. I have to say that Tom Brady led that team. If everyone thinks hes not that good why didnt Bledsoe win a couple superbowls with the Patriots, hes got the strong arm? Brady is a leader and has done a solid job in NE. Youd think he would have more credit after getting a second super bowl... They team is even better this year in my opinion, doesnt mean they will win the super bowl but they will be in the hunt with Brady and the healm. __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

05-20-2004, 07:50 PM	#32
Redskins8588 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ridgway, PA Age: 47 Posts: 2,519	Jeff George is a bum, that was the worst move the redskins ever made!!! Jeff George is the only QB that spells TEAM with an I!!! I should have added that the great QB will also care about the team first. Jeff George is probably the only exception. Tom Brady did indeed lead the drives to allow Vinatieri to make the field goals, but when Vinatieri went on the field to both times all the presure, the season, and even maybe his career were on the line with those GAME WINNING kicks. Look at what happened to Steve Cristie(sp) when he missed the field goal that would have let the Bills beat the Giants in the super bowl, he went down hill after that, even though it was Jim Kelly, now in the hall of fame, that led the drive to allow him to attempt that kick. The Bills whole season came down to how good there kicker was, and not who led the drive. QUESTION: With out Vinatieri do the Pats still win the Super Bowl both or even 1 time?

05-20-2004, 08:45 PM	#35
Redskins8588 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ridgway, PA Age: 47 Posts: 2,519	smootsmack, My bad on that, your right I meant Norwood. Also I think you get my point. But I never compared him to Joe Montana. Does he have the ability to be that good? Maybe, but I agree it is too early to tell. SKINSnCANES, if they are as good as you say with Brady, then why didn't they do much in the 2002 season? With the exception of some players the Pats were pretty much the same team.

05-20-2004, 10:22 PM	#36
hi-jinx Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Memphis Age: 51 Posts: 180	Ya kow quite a few of us think Lavar may be overrated and/or overpaid. I would love to see a poll along those lines.(hint, hint)

05-20-2004, 10:34 PM	#37
MTK Hail Raiser Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 53 Posts: 100,048	2 rings in his first 4 seasons is a hell of a start for Brady. Another ring and the Montana comparisons will really start flying. He's got alot of ball left to go.

05-20-2004, 11:23 PM	#38
Drift Reality Impact Rookie Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 506	Overrated - Keyshawn Johnson. This guy doesn't get any separation any longer (except against us last year) and talks way too much for someone who isn't much of a playmaker. He is a good possession receiver, but that's about it.

05-21-2004, 12:15 AM	#39
PSUskinsfan11 Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: the port, PA Age: 41 Posts: 692	Wow I can't wait till LaVar has an amazing year back at the weakside and all of you haters are eating your words.

05-21-2004, 01:18 PM	#45
skin4Life28 Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 39 Posts: 447	I love Lavar and his energy that he brings to the game. I would have to say so far he has not really proven anything yet. He doesnt even have a 100 tackle season. For those who are saying Urlacher is overrated are crazy. The man has had in all of his four seasons 100 plus tackles. If you compare the two players you tell me who has done more.

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