Core of the Redskins problem: Greed

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Where is our upheaval?? I'm not seeing it.

We added Arch and Carter to the D. Lloyd is the only new starter to the offense. People are acting like we ripped up the roster this offseason and started over. The new offense wasn't supposed to be a huge issue, and it certainly doesn't help explain the sudden demise of the defense.

Let's face it, we have the talent to win ballgames but for whatever reason they're just not getting it done on the field.

The problem with the defense is injuries more than anything. Salave'a and Griffen have played together like once this year. That's a big problem. That's gonna the run defense. Then, you miss Springs and add a safety who doesn't cover well. You replace Springs with Wright and then Rogers hasn't been what I had hoped. That hurts the passing game.

[hail_2_da_skins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Where is our upheaval?? I'm not seeing it.

We added Arch and Carter to the D. Lloyd is the only new starter to the offense. People are acting like we ripped up the roster this offseason and started over. The new offense wasn't supposed to be a huge issue, and it certainly doesn't help explain the sudden demise of the defense.

Let's face it, we have the talent to win ballgames but for whatever reason they're just not getting it done on the field.

Our regular defensive starters for last year were Renaldo Wynn DE, Phillip Daniels DE, Cornelius Giffin DT, Joe Salava'e DT, Levar Arrington OLB, Marcus Washington OLB, Lemar Marshall MLB, Shawn Springs CB, Carlos Rogers CB, Sean Taylor FS and Ryan Clark FS.

Yesterday Wynn, Griffin, Salave'e, Arrington, Springs and Clark were not starting. I know some replacements were due to injuries, but the reality is only 5 of the regular 11 starters were on the field. That's only 45%. I would call that an upheaval.

I think the problem goes back furthur than just one year of free agent acquisitions. This problem has manefested itself for several years. It is a repeated strategy of trading draft picks for veterans. It is flawed. Because management has traded away the future, it is difficult to reverse the strategy. For at least five years, the team would have to keep what draft picks it has and not aggressively go after free agents. The talent level would deminish greatly. Redskin fans wouldn't put up with it. Coaches would get fired, seats would be empty and the owners would lose money. Its not going to happen.

[hesscl34]

It's like a bad nightmare. Gibbs is a great coach.... I HATE Snyder!

--

[JGisLordOfTheRings]

Originally Posted by hail_2_da_skins

Our regular defensive starters for last year were Renaldo Wynn DE, Phillip Daniels DE, Cornelius Giffin DT, Joe Salava'e DT, Levar Arrington OLB, Marcus Washington OLB, Lemar Marshall MLB, Shawn Springs CB, Carlos Rogers CB, Sean Taylor FS and Ryan Clark FS.

Yesterday Wynn, Griffin, Salave'e, Arrington, Springs and Clark were not starting. I know some replacements were due to injuries, but the reality is only 5 of the regular 11 starters were on the field. That's only 45%. I would call that an upheaval.

I think the problem goes back furthur than just one year of free agent acquisitions. This problem has manefested itself for several years. It is a repeated strategy of trading draft picks for veterans. It is flawed. Because management has traded away the future, it is difficult to reverse the strategy. For at least five years, the team would have to keep what draft picks it has and not aggressively go after free agents. The talent level would deminish greatly. Redskin fans wouldn't put up with it. Coaches would get fired, seats would be empty and the owners would lose money. Its not going to happen.

WELL SAID....I like Dan Snyder, he just needs to learn to leave the BIG decisions to the ones who have to deal with it most, THE COACHES AND STAFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MTK]

Originally Posted by hail_2_da_skins

Our regular defensive starters for last year were Renaldo Wynn DE, Phillip Daniels DE, Cornelius Giffin DT, Joe Salava'e DT, Levar Arrington OLB, Marcus Washington OLB, Lemar Marshall MLB, Shawn Springs CB, Carlos Rogers CB, Sean Taylor FS and Ryan Clark FS.

Yesterday Wynn, Griffin, Salave'e, Arrington, Springs and Clark were not starting. I know some replacements were due to injuries, but the reality is only 5 of the regular 11 starters were on the field. That's only 45%. I would call that an upheaval.

Upheaval to me means what happens in the offseason and that's what I was referring to. Injuries have hurt this year but you can't plan for that.

[redsk1]

I mentioned this in another thread but i agree w/ some of the points made in this thread. Gibbs and Co started out being frugal saying they wouldn't resign Smoot for more than Springs was making. They let AP go for more money, ok. Then we sign AA, for more than ST is making. You get the point.

I'm just not sold on the building of our team thru Free agency yet in the nfl 2006. I think there should be a balance and more and more we are titled towards free agency. The first thing to go would be our depth.

If we signed AA, why couldn't we have overpaid for one of our core guys, smoot-ap-clark.

That being said, i hope and want them to prove my opinion wrong.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by JGisLordOfTheRings

WELL SAID....I like Dan Snyder, he just needs to learn to leave the BIG decisions to the ones who have to deal with it most, THE COACHES AND STAFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We're all fooling ourselves if we think that Gibbs doesn't have final (and probably first) say in all of these trades of draft picks for players. I'm on record repeatedly saying that the Philly / New England approach of stock piling and building thru the draft first, then filling holes via free agency is the only way to LONG-TERM success. It provides a team with quality depth for far less than signing free agents left and right. We make Snyder a convenient target, but I believe Gibbs has caught the "instant gratification" bug from Snyder when it comes to feeding our lust for big FA signings. I was hoping that Gibbs would bring a more mature approach by building a winner patiently. Look at Lovey Smith and the Bears, another prime example of a team that had the patience to take their knocks while drafting/developing young talent.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

I'd kill to get Pierce back right now and move Marshall to the outside.

As for lynching Danny Snyder, he's not responsible for the offseason moves. I don't really care for the guy, but we can't blame him for something he didn't do.

[Crat92]

Snyder does need to leave the decision making to the "football" people. Once personel decisions have been made, he needs to do what he does well......................................OPEN UP THE CHECKBOOK! HAIL from Nashville!

[JGisLordOfTheRings]

Originally Posted by Crat92

Snyder does need to leave the decision making to the "football" people. Once personel decisions have been made, he needs to do what he does well......................................OPEN UP THE CHECKBOOK! HAIL from Nashville!

Amen Hallelujah and BRING ON DUCKETT!!!!!!!!!!!

[MightyJoeGibbs]

Originally Posted by Drift Reality

I'm posting this as someone who has been a fan of the Redskins since I was born. Literally - there was a Redskins game actually going on when my Mother was in labor and the nurse had to actually get my Father and the Doctor out of the waiting room to attend to her.

I digress, I've been a fan through the glory days and on through the Snyder era and I think at the core of this problem is simply a general miscalibration on Dan Snyder's part in failing to fully recognize how his huge contracts to outside players has a negative impact on the internal organization.

Take Sean Taylor for example. How do you think he must feel when they go out and bring in Archuleta for a larger contract? Where is his incentive to go out and kick ass when he is locked into a multi-year deal that is paying him less than the white (I hate to bring in the race card but I am going to) inferior safety next to him.

To put this in context, the Skins publicly said they would not resign Smoot for more than Springs was making because they felt he wasn't the same caliber player. According to that logic, would they sign Archuleta for more than Sean Taylor makes because they feel he is a better talent? You see where I'm going with this one?

How about Lemar Marshall? We are talking about a guy making nothing in NFL terms, who probably has seen what has happened to other undrafted FA's such as Ryan Clark and Antonio Pierce, guys who have played their asses off and not been rewarded internally. Why would he want to sacrifice life and limb for a team that he knows isn't going to reward him because it is unsexy to sign an undrafted FA to a competitive contract.

In a traditional environment, a team will draft young players and then those young players will be rewarded internally. They will develop a great deal of respect for the organization because they know at the end of the day, it is them who is going to get the big contract and not some external. I know a lot of us played high school football. Imagine busting your ass from freshman through junior year only to be told your senior year that they were going to bring in a transfer to take your job. Now imagine if that was the culture of your high school. Would you be as inclined to kill yourself for your team?

And this my friends, is what is at the core of the problem here: It is an egregious oversight on the part of management to really consider what is truly at stake. In their drive to try and buy their way through the NFL process, they have really hamstrung themselves in the long run.

Until Snyder steps back and lets a GM with a proven track record (like Grunfeld with the Wizards) fully take over the organization, we are going to continue to suffer like this I'm afraid...

So lets all collectively pray that come offseason, we find a way to renew faith in the draft, re-sign our own free agents, maybe fill one or two holes with solid but not ridiculous free agent signings, ante up for those internal players who were successful, cut Mark Brunell, and bring some pride back into this franchise.

Thats an awesome way to be born. DId we win the game?

[JGisLordOfTheRings]

Originally Posted by MightyJoeGibbs

Thats an awesome way to be born. DId we win the game?

that is pretty nuts....WELL, DID THEY!!!!?!?!?!?!

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

We're all fooling ourselves if we think that Gibbs doesn't have final (and probably first) say in all of these trades of draft picks for players. I'm on record repeatedly saying that the Philly / New England approach of stock piling and building thru the draft first, then filling holes via free agency is the only way to LONG-TERM success. It provides a team with quality depth for far less than signing free agents left and right. We make Snyder a convenient target, but I believe Gibbs has caught the "instant gratification" bug from Snyder when it comes to feeding our lust for big FA signings. I was hoping that Gibbs would bring a more mature approach by building a winner patiently. Look at Lovey Smith and the Bears, another prime example of a team that had the patience to take their knocks while drafting/developing young talent.

I don't think the fans have the patience for such a strategy. For so many fans the season was already over when we lost our first preseason game. Maybe it's because of the high standards Gibbs set his first time around (and even George Allen deserves some credit/blame for this) but I don't think the majority of the fan base is really going to accept "rebuilding years." Especially not when Snyder is making the team so financially lucrative. They'd wonder why isn't he going after big name free agents with all those deep pockets. I, for one, don't mind their strategy because it's not like the free agents they are getting are past their prime (with the probably exception of Arch)

[Drift Reality]

Originally Posted by jamf

Drift, I agree completely.
Portis, Betts and Rock were pissed when they brought Duckett in. We had good chemistry with our backs. I getting the feeling that Gibbs pretty much benched duckett just to keep our RB's happy.

This would have been a much better example. I think I distracted the discussion by mentioning Sean Taylor and the race card.

For the record, I do not believe that the Redskins are racist.

I believe that professional athletes do consider things like others' salaries and others' race though.

[Drift Reality]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I know we all want answers but this thread is really digging for something that isn't there. I think it's really dangerous to start throwing around the race card and insinuating that players are upset with what other players are making. This sort of speculation is a little over the top in my opinion. Let's get back to some of the more likely issues we're struggling. Adjusting to a new offense, no offensive identity, injuries, etc.

I think it is a really touchy subject and I thought long and hard before I wrote and posted it to this thread.

To be honest, NFL players (just like any other professionals) are very competitive about their salaries. I also think that race is a huge issue in the NFL, as well as in the general landscape. Now, I firmly do not believe the signing of Archuleta had much to do with race, but do I believe that some players might view it that way? Yes.

Is Sean Taylor already upset about his contract? Yes.

Do many of the Redskins feel that their personnel strategy favors outside free agents? Yes.

When people feel like they aren't getting their due, do they have a habit of looking for reasons to be bitter? Yes!

That's all I'm saying.