Jason Campbell..What's his time table?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by irish

I'm not comparing situations, I'm talking about what Gibbs says and what he does. Often they are very different things.

As for Gibbs endorsing PR, did he or did he not say "Patrick is our guy"?

He said what he had to at that time with Ramsey. He was their guy at that time, however briefly that turned out to be.

Now he's committed to building around Campbell, that sounds like a much stronger endorsement than he's our guy.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

He said what he had to at that time with Ramsey. He was their guy at that time, however briefly that turned out to be.

Now he's committed to building around Campbell, that sounds like a much stronger endorsement than he's our guy.

PR was never Gibbs' guy and you know it but wont admit it.

I do think Gibbs is committed to JC unless something better comes along.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by irish

PR was never Gibbs' guy and you know it but wont admit it.

I do think Gibbs is committed to JC unless something better comes along.

Not sure what you mean exactly, I'm well aware that PR wasn't Gibbs guy, he wasn't from the start and that's why we shouldn't be surprised that he went back to Brunell. But he did give him a shot to take the job and he only proved why Gibbs didn't trust him. If Ramsey was good enough to hold the job he would have, problem is he wasn't good enough.

I think Gibbs is committed to JC for the long run, unless he's a disaster which I think is pretty unlikely.

[Beemnseven]

Don't forget it was this front office (though admittedly, not Joe Gibbs) who brought in Jeff George when we thought all was well with Brad Johnson after the '99 season.

I won't be the least bit surprised if Snyderatto starts whispering in Joe Gibbs ear for a quality, veteran quarterback. And his name isn't Todd Collins.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Not sure what you mean exactly, I'm well aware that PR wasn't Gibbs guy, he wasn't from the start and that's why we shouldn't be surprised that he went back to Brunell. But he did give him a shot to take the job and he only proved why Gibbs didn't trust him. If Ramsey was good enough to hold the job he would have, problem is he wasn't good enough.

I think Gibbs is committed to JC for the long run, unless he's a disaster which I think is pretty unlikely.

If PR wasnt Gibbs' guy from the start then why did he say he was? Dont say anything or say something about competition at QB but dont say a guy is your guy when he's not. That's why I keep saying that we cant really believe anything Gibbs says. Which is my point.

Maybe something better wont come along but if it does (especially based on this organizatiuons recent history) then JC is done.

[MTK]

'99 is ages ago and pretty irrelevant to today's situation.

I think we do need to bring in a vet for the #2 spot, unless Brunell wants to hang on, but I don't think we would bring in a veteran that would be any sort of strong threat to Campbell.

[redsk1]

I wouldn't be suprised if we brought in a vet qb in the offseason. I think JC has shown some real good things in his few games in there. Of course he's looked like a rook sometimes too but to be expected.

But i've got to say that our o-line has been pretty impressive lately and (I can't believe i'm going to say it) w/ a vet qb in there we may have been inthe playoff race this year. Don't get me wrong though I'm glad JC is in there learning. I'd rather answer this thread after 3 more games.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

'99 is ages ago and pretty irrelevant to today's situation.

It's not irrelevant when the same people are here in the very same capacity. The past is the best indication of future performance.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by irish

If PR wasnt Gibbs' guy from the start then why did he say he was? Dont say anything or say something about competition at QB but dont say a guy is your guy when he's not. That's why I keep saying that we cant really believe anything Gibbs says. Which is my point.

So based on that one statement you don't trust Gibbs?

I guess it depends on what context you want to take that statement in.

You're taking it as since Ramsey wasn't his guy from the start he should have never said anything to the contrary.

I'm taking it as he might not have been his guy from the start, but given the circumstances he gave him a shot and he didn't come through.

Regardless, that's over. Campbell is the guy he gave up multiple picks to trade up to draft, and his praise of Campbell is something we never heard him give Ramsey. His eyes light up when he talks about Campbell, you can tell he's genuinely excited about his future and the way he's handling things even now.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

It's not irrelevant when the same people are here in the very same capacity. The past is the best indication of future performance.

It's irrelevant based on the fact that Gibbs is now running the show and from all indications Snyder has taken a backseat. I'd even say that Snyder has learned a thing or two from his past mistakes and probably wouldn't have gone about things the same way if he could do it all over again.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by irish

Maybe something better wont come along but if it does (especially based on this organizatiuons recent history) then JC is done.

This is absurd, because we've got a stack of evidence that's proof the "sign a vet, screw developing your young talent" approach DOES NOT WORK.

I really think people are smoking something expecting Jason to come in and dominate or something. Take a look at the '98 Colts and a young guy by the name of Peyton Manning who had a bunch of < 200 yard passing games with 1 TD and 2+ INT's.

Jason will be fine, if we let him develop. And I have all confidence that they will do this. He's shown poise and leadership that we haven't seen from our other young QB's, and he's made enough plays to show that he knows how to win, IMO.

Plus, I think Gibbs is giving him the ideal situation to grow -- unlike a Jay Cutler situation where he has all this pressure to win, otherwise the team being eliminated from the playoffs gets hung around his neck! Any game the Skins play well now with JC at the helm is a confidence booster for him and if he makes mistakes (like he did yesterday) and we lose, it's not the end of the world.

If this organization gives up on Jason Campbell it's effectively saying "We Have No Idea What We Are Doing". How close we are to actually being there is up for debate. I'd like to think we're a long way from there, but we aren't winning, and for some, that's enough evidence for them.

[FRPLG]

Irish...what was Gibbs supposed to say about Ramsey?

"Well he's the guy who was here when I got here here but I think he sucks so I brought in a proven winner with diminished skills and I still think he is better than Ramsey. But In all fairness I'll just stick Ramsey in there even though I think he blows."

He said what he needed to to rally his troops and support his QB. He was trying to give PR every chance he could and keep the media off PR's back. Saying "he our guy" and saying "We are going to build around him are way different. Especially when you look at the context of the whole situation. Gibbs moved mountains to draft Ramsey. A better comparison can be made to Brunell who Gibbs also went after and brought in and has given more than enough chances too. No way JC isn't starter day 1 next year unless he is hurt.

[irish]

Originally Posted by dgack

This is absurd, because we've got a stack of evidence that's proof the "sign a vet, screw developing your young talent" approach DOES NOT WORK.

I really think people are smoking something expecting Jason to come in and dominate or something. Take a look at the '98 Colts and a young guy by the name of Peyton Manning who had a bunch of < 200 yard passing games with 1 TD and 2+ INT's.

Jason will be fine, if we let him develop. And I have all confidence that they will do this. He's shown poise and leadership that we haven't seen from our other young QB's, and he's made enough plays to show that he knows how to win, IMO.

Plus, I think Gibbs is giving him the ideal situation to grow -- unlike a Jay Cutler situation where he has all this pressure to win, otherwise the team being eliminated from the playoffs gets hung around his neck! Any game the Skins play well now with JC at the helm is a confidence booster for him and if he makes mistakes (like he did yesterday) and we lose, it's not the end of the world.

If this organization gives up on Jason Campbell it's effectively saying "We Have No Idea What We Are Doing". How close we are to actually being there is up for debate. I'd like to think we're a long way from there, but we aren't winning, and for some, that's enough evidence for them.

I'm not saying the redskins should dump JC. I am saying that based on how this organization does business the minute they think something better is available JC will be history.

This organization does not have any idea of what its doing. What have they done to make you think they do? The organization is really between a rock & hard place because they cant stay the course with what they have been doing because it clearly not working and they cant build with the draft because they have given away most of their picks. To me it sounds like an organization that is clueless. I truely think this is the lowest point the redskins have even been.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by irish

I'm not saying the redskins should dump JC. I am saying that based on how this organization does business the minute they think something better is available JC will be history.

This organization does not have any idea of what its doing. What have they done to make you think they do? The organization is really between a rock & hard place because they cant stay the course with what they have been doing because it clearly not working and they cant build with the draft because they have given away most of their picks. To me it sounds like an organization that is clueless. I truely think this is the lowest point the redskins have even been.

Irish...

Theres a significant difference between making scouting errors and poor cap management...and having no idea what you are doing. The latter is a commonly used exaggeration of the former. You seem to be treating it as fact.

Gibbs and co. are inexpierenced at front office work when it comes to salary cap management and personel management. Inexpierenced and mistake prone, not stupid. There's a difference.

Also, I wouldn't say that a plan is "clearly not working" when 13 games ago, said team was in the playoffs. We really don't know why the defense is playing so poorly, but the NFL is a 16 game season. Games are decided almost completely randomly (case in point-Sunday's game. We were the better team, and Philly won), and things don't necessarily even out over the season. So I don't think a 13 game sample is enough to say that what we are doing isn't working with any degree of certainty.

I think we can all agree on the fact that giving away all our draft picks was a mistake, but only because the vets we signed were unable to produce a championship.

[The Zimmermans]

I think Jason had his most promising game this weekend. He made some throws that I wasn't sure he was capable of making. We were 4-8 coming into this game, so a victory would not have helped us in any way at all in the end (although I would have thoroughly enjoyed one). I saw flashes of brilliance outta jason, and that is all that matters to me. To throw two picks and then stage a comeback and put us in a position to win is very impressive. And I loved the JC Randle El connection. We converted many third downs that brunell would not have converted, which kept the eagles O off the field. Good stuff from JC in the second half.