Does he see the same things we do?

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by pg86

Ramsey didnt diserve the right to wear #11 Rypiens number should be retired

I don't know about that. They've only retired Sammy Baugh's #33. Theismann, Jurgenson, Darrell Green, Riggins, and Art Monk's jersey numbers haven't been retired yet.

There are several players before Rypien that deserve to have their jerseys retired before he could be included in the conversation.

[dgack]

One point that gets consistently missed in the Great Gibbs / Brunell Vs Campbell Debate is that (IMO) Joe did not want to put Jason in a position where he was set up to fail, long-term, as the QB and future of this franchise.

This is exactly what we did to Ramsey, regardless of whether that kid ever had it or not, and given that being an NFL QB is so much about your mental stamina and attitude, I think he absolutely did the right thing by waiting as long as he did, and here's why:

1). He gave the kid a solid year of apprenticeship, to watch and learn from a proven veteran in Brunell, who led the team through a lot of negativity last season and nearly completed a true Cinderella comeback in the playoffs. Great experience for Jason to learn from.

2). He knew once he made the move for Jason, Mark was done here, and all eyes (locally and nationally) would be on Jason as the future of this franchise. You can't play Campbell and then say "he's not ready". Once he goes in, it's on the line.

3). He didn't pull a Shanahan and put Jason into a position where he had to win to keep the team's playoff chances alive. Instead, he's getting valuable game experience, and chances to win games (and win real moral victories / confidence boosters) but in games that nobody really blames him for / cares too much about if we lose.

4). He's allowing Jason to build confidence, and setting the stage for what he knows is his most crucial test, which is next season. Why? Because he knows that next season, everyone will expect him to lead this team to the playoffs.

Being QB of any high-profile NFL team is a pressure-cooker, especially being the QB of the Redskins. Nearly every Skins fan has locked their "hopes and dreams-ometer" to this kid, and Joe knows it. He need only look at Eli Manning to know what happens when a sharp kid with the tools loses his confidence or composure, too. Or Kyle Boller, for an example of what happens to young promising QB's who never regain their own or their team's confidence. Or Ben Roethlisberger, to see what happens to a young QB who's had early success but let it go to his head (figuratively and literally). Or Heath Shuler, to see what happens when the next Savior of the Franchise just can't get it going.

So, I think Joe knows a thing or two about cultivating young QB's, and I think he knows a thing or two about the difference between breeding winners and losers. The way he's handled the Brunell/Campbell situation went down about how I expected to, and I think in time we will see this as a great move.

[MTK]

Rypien's #11 is in no danger of being retired... not even close.

He had some good seasons and won a Super Bowl, but that's not exactly worthy of having a number retired.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Rypien's #11 is in no danger of being retired... not even close.

He had some good seasons and won a Super Bowl, but that's not exactly worthy of having a number retired.

I agree.
91 was his only pro bowl caliber season (even though he went in 89 as well)
He posted a good season (not spectacular) in 89.
He was average in 88 and 90.
He was below average in 92 and 93.

If his number gets retired, there are about 50 other players (at least) that deserve to have their numbers retired.

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I agree.
91 was his only pro bowl caliber season (even though he went in 89 as well)
He posted a good season (not spectacular) in 89.
He was average in 88 and 90.
He was below average in 92 and 93.

If his number gets retired, there are about 50 other players (at least) that deserve to have their numbers retired.

I'll bet that would leave us with some pretty non-standard numbering if we did that!

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by onlydarksets

I'll bet that would leave us with some pretty non-standard numbering if we did that!

We'd have to employ triple digit numbers!

[hesscl34]

Originally Posted by onlydarksets

Except for this:


He's completely missing the point of having two quality RBs. Both will play, although CP will technically be the #1 back.

CP doesn't fumble the ball away... he's our #1

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by hesscl34

CP doesn't fumble the ball away... he's our #1

I don't disagree in the slightest - my point is that his carries-per-game average is going to go down some because Betts is going to get more carries each game. I think it will end up with Betts getting 10-15 and CP getting 15-20 a game. No question that CP is the #1 back, but it won't be like how LT is the #1 back, getting 80-90% of the carries each game. That was my only point in saying "technically".

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by onlydarksets

I don't disagree in the slightest - my point is that his carries-per-game average is going to go down some because Betts is going to get more carries each game. I think it will end up with Betts getting 10-15 and CP getting 15-20 a game. No question that CP is the #1 back, but it won't be like how LT is the #1 back, getting 80-90% of the carries each game. That was my only point in saying "technically".

That will be good for Portis anyway...Portis always seems to have those little nagging injuries, so having Betts will help keep him fresh.

[onlydarksets]

I agree - it bodes well, especially given that both players seem to be pretty selfless. If they can work together, they could be another 1000 yard tandem next year.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by onlydarksets

I agree - it bodes well, especially given that both players seem to be pretty selfless. If they can work together, they could be another 1000 yard tandem next year.

If our offense gets on the same page, I can see that too.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

You're right. You've got to give Brunell credit for '05 -- it was the one season where he did exactly what he was supposed to do. Many of his 23 touchdowns were short throws into the endzone after Portis took us down the field. Still, he got "hot" for a stretch or two, then gradually ran out of gas (which is usually what happens with guys his age).

So yeah, without Brunell there might not have been the playoffs last year -- but I still sometimes wonder if Ramsey could have matured going through 2004 as the unquestioned starter under Gibbs' guidance. What level might he have been on in 2005?

He could not start here and he could not start for the Jets. Thats about 5 to 10 coaches that have seen him play and went with another QB. Its not that hard to figure out!

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by dgack

One point that gets consistently missed in the Great Gibbs / Brunell Vs Campbell Debate is that (IMO) Joe did not want to put Jason in a position where he was set up to fail, long-term, as the QB and future of this franchise.

This is exactly what we did to Ramsey, regardless of whether that kid ever had it or not, and given that being an NFL QB is so much about your mental stamina and attitude, I think he absolutely did the right thing by waiting as long as he did, and here's why:

1). He gave the kid a solid year of apprenticeship, to watch and learn from a proven veteran in Brunell, who led the team through a lot of negativity last season and nearly completed a true Cinderella comeback in the playoffs. Great experience for Jason to learn from.

2). He knew once he made the move for Jason, Mark was done here, and all eyes (locally and nationally) would be on Jason as the future of this franchise. You can't play Campbell and then say "he's not ready". Once he goes in, it's on the line.

3). He didn't pull a Shanahan and put Jason into a position where he had to win to keep the team's playoff chances alive. Instead, he's getting valuable game experience, and chances to win games (and win real moral victories / confidence boosters) but in games that nobody really blames him for / cares too much about if we lose.

4). He's allowing Jason to build confidence, and setting the stage for what he knows is his most crucial test, which is next season. Why? Because he knows that next season, everyone will expect him to lead this team to the playoffs.

Being QB of any high-profile NFL team is a pressure-cooker, especially being the QB of the Redskins. Nearly every Skins fan has locked their "hopes and dreams-ometer" to this kid, and Joe knows it. He need only look at Eli Manning to know what happens when a sharp kid with the tools loses his confidence or composure, too. Or Kyle Boller, for an example of what happens to young promising QB's who never regain their own or their team's confidence. Or Ben Roethlisberger, to see what happens to a young QB who's had early success but let it go to his head (figuratively and literally). Or Heath Shuler, to see what happens when the next Savior of the Franchise just can't get it going.

So, I think Joe knows a thing or two about cultivating young QB's, and I think he knows a thing or two about the difference between breeding winners and losers. The way he's handled the Brunell/Campbell situation went down about how I expected to, and I think in time we will see this as a great move.

You can pick hands full of good QB's that have sat a year or two and you could grab hands full of good QB's that where thrown right into play. I don't think it matters if they are a good QB to start with if they are that mental that they cannot start right away than a dout they will make it in the NFL.

[dgack]

Originally Posted by firstdown

You can pick hands full of good QB's that have sat a year or two and you could grab hands full of good QB's that where thrown right into play. I don't think it matters if they are a good QB to start with if they are that mental that they cannot start right away than a dout they will make it in the NFL.

So what's your explanation for Drew Brees?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by firstdown

He could not start here and he could not start for the Jets. Thats about 5 to 10 coaches that have seen him play and went with another QB. Its not that hard to figure out!

Patrick Ramsey was over rated...by the Skins only!
I'm glad we finally cut those ties...the man has a great arm, but it's too erratic for the NFL.