NFL DRAFT SCOUT 1/30 mock (Alan Branch, DT)

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

True, while I'd rather the team build through the draft, if this is HOW they're doing it, their success rate has been pretty good.

no, it hasn't been. if you go 50/50 in 30$mill FA contracts, you're success rate is TERRIBLE. If you go 50/50 with draft picks or vet min FAs, you're doing absolutely amazing. when you hand out huge contracts, the guys are supposed to have already proved that they're able to play.

and what about the guys they let go? the 4 dbs that were depth here and became STARTERS for other teams. those have to be considered misses as well.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

True, while I'd rather the team build through the draft, if this is HOW they're doing it, their success rate has been pretty good.

I think their 2004 free agent class was great. Their 2005 free agent class was mediocre (they let Pierce go, and got Rabach). Their 2006 free agent class was pretty bad, at least when you measure production against salary. Overall, our free agent acquisitions under JGII have been so-so.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by redsk1

No question, we have a need lb, secondary, line and not alot of FA $ to go around.

Money is not a problem this year.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by gabe1984

I dunno, in my opnion they've made more bad decisions than good decisions in personnel since Gibbs has come back.

Other than some obvious bombs along the lines of AA and Lloyd, how do you figure the bad outweighs the good?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

True, while I'd rather the team build through the draft, if this is HOW they're doing it, their success rate has been pretty good.

I think the Redskins have shown that free agency is a perfectly acceptable method of building a roster...but they've also shown you have to be smarter about it then they have.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think the Redskins have shown that free agency is a perfectly acceptable method of building a roster...but they've also shown you have to be smarter about it then they have.

5-11 isn't acceptable. We will find out next year because if they don't have a winning record, Joe is probably gone.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

I am somewhere in between Grim21 and GTripp. I think the Redskins have done a pretty decent job of scouting free agents (e.g., Washington, Griffin, Springs, Daniels, Coles/Moss, Portis, Rabach, Thomas, ARE). Those guys far outnumber the Lloyds and AAs.

On the other hand, they have overpaid for their free agents. They've given them fat contracts (e.g., AAs being the richest for ANY safety in the history of the league). They've also overpaid to acquire them (e.g., 3rd rounder for Brunell, 3rd and 4th rounders for Lloyd, 3rd rounder for Duckett).

Then there is the whole matter of the draft. Cooley was an excellent find int he 3rd round, Taylor had a bad 2006 campaign but should be stud, Golston is an oustanding find when you consider he was a 6th rounder, Campbell looks very promising and may prove to be worth more than we gave up to get him, and it is still too early to judge Rocky McIntosh. But, Rogers was perhaps a big mistake (especially considering Ware and Merriman were on the board).

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I am somewhere in between Grim21 and GTripp. I think the Redskins have done a pretty decent job of scouting free agents (e.g., Washington, Griffin, Springs, Daniels, Coles/Moss, Portis, Rabach, Thomas, ARE). Those guys far outnumber the Lloyds and AAs.

On the other hand, they have overpaid for their free agents. They've given them fat contracts (e.g., AAs being the richest for ANY safety in the history of the league). They've also overpaid to acquire them (e.g., 3rd rounder for Brunell, 3rd and 4th rounders for Lloyd, 3rd rounder for Duckett).

Then there is the whole matter of the draft. Cooley was an excellent find int he 3rd round, Taylor had a bad 2006 campaign but should be stud, Golston is an oustanding find when you consider he was a 6th rounder, Campbell looks very promising and may prove to be worth more than we gave up to get him, and it is still too early to judge Rocky McIntosh. But, Rogers was perhaps a big mistake (especially considering Ware and Merriman were on the board).

I'm not sure what Merriman or Ware would be playing in our defense. I think that Carlos will work out fine after awhile anyway. He already provides great run defense, and has shown flashes of shut down cover skills. I think our current college scouting department really knows their stuff. Look at Campbell; dudes a projected 3rd rounder and we trade our 2006 first rounder to move up into the bottom half of the 1st round to get him. He's probably going to be a top 10 QB in this league by 2008.

But your post is pretty much what I was saying in not so many words. The Skins have built a great core through free agency. They proved that it can be done and sustained. They have just made some idiotic mistakes that are equally as frusterating for me now as they were at the time they were made.

It's going to cost us over 2008 and 2009 since we dont even have 25 roster caliber players under contract for 08, yet we are within 6 million dollars of the cap, and that doesnt even count the signing bonus allocation/base salary of our 6th overall pick and any free agents we get this year and next year, and our draft picks in 2008. We will probably be over the cap by 4-5 million and still need to add 15-20 players to the payroll just to field a team. Then we're in a predicament. We could restructure every and all veterans, but thats only going to make the situation 50% worse in 09 and 10. If you make substancial cuts, you start the road to recovery with little roster talent for the 08-09 seasons. It's unfortunate because this situation could have been completely avoided with our current philosophy with some light film study prior to signing FAs and not giving our draft picks away for nothing.

So in summary, we've pioneered IMO a legit method for roster building, and ultimately screwed it up for ourselves.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Grim21Reaper

5-11 isn't acceptable. We will find out next year because if they don't have a winning record, Joe is probably gone.

I'm guessing you didn't read my whole post.

It was two lines...

[gabe1984]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Other than some obvious bombs along the lines of AA and Lloyd, how do you figure the bad outweighs the good?

Matty, I feel like I could go on alllll day about why the bad outweighs the good, we probably just look at the situation differently, but here are some reasons.
1. We traded Champ Bailey, the best cornerback in the league, and a draft pick for Clinton Portis. In my opinion, this was not a good idea because talent like Bailey's is extremely rare, and while Portis is a stud, I can think of a handful of NFL running backs that are close to or of his ability or even better such as LT, LJ, Stephen Jackson, Sean Alexander, Edgerrin James, Frank Gore, Thomas Jones, you could make a case for all those guys. They should have looked at what we already had in Betts, Duckett, and Sellars. Or gone through the draft! What did the colts do when they lost Edge, they got a new RB through the draft!

2. I'm going to kinda lump the rest of these guys together. Over the last 4 years, we've continually gotten rid of solid NFL players such as Fred Smoot, AP, 56, and I know the these last two may be debatable...Walt Harris and Ryan Clark. Not only have we gotten rid of talent, but it shows that rest of the team that they're not really willing to take care of their own, and it destroys team chemistry and comradery.

3. I know this is also debateable, but bringing in Mark Brunell. We had a young, promising quarter back in Ramsey, and we decided to bring in an old man. Yes, he went went to the playoffs with him, but I don't think he was really key in doing so. Other than that, we've had two losing season with him, and Gibbs's allegiance to him has hurt the team because he kept him Brunell in longer than he should have.

4. Carlos Rodgers. We had a chance at Ware and Merriman, and we passed up on both of them. Maybe we needed a cornerback, but guess what, maybe we shouldn't have gotten rid of Smoot and Bailey! If we woulda kept them, maybe we would not have drafted Carlos, and we'd a have a pro bowler in either Ware or Merriman, instead of a guy who drops interceptions, and says there's nothing he can do about it when he gets burned for TDs.

5. I don't think I need to go into detail about the cap situaton, AA, Lloyd, and trading a 3rd rounder for Duckett.

Bottom line, if the personnel decisions are that good, then why does GibbsII have a losing record? To their credit, we did bring in some good players like Taylor, Moss, Cooley, Washington, Springs, possibly Campbell, Griffin....... But, I mean, I can also argue as to why they're not that good. Ok, Moss, Cooley,Taylor, and Washington, IMO, were all good. Springs, is an aging CB, that cannot stay healthy, and may have to move to safety. Why didn't we just keep Bailey or Smoot? Washington was a great move too, I can't argue against that. But a lot of the defensive lineman we singed like Griffin, Salavea, Daniels, they're all getting old, they're production is going to start dropping off because they're in the second half of their career. In addition, we've all seen how getting rid of Clark has hurt Taylor's performance.

It's like the Redskins front office is a bunch of Heroin addicts. They're addicted to spending tons of money on free agents because they think it'll fill the insatiable desire for the team to win. But, many of these acquisitions are merely a quick fix that will end their pain for a short time as it did in 2005, but as proven last year it will then start up again if they continue on with the same habits. It didn't work when we signed old guys like Deion and Bruce Smith the first time, and it's not gonna work now.

This why I think that the bad outweighs the good.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

You have good points, but you can say that about ANY other team in the league.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by gabe1984

1. We traded Champ Bailey, the best cornerback in the league, and a draft pick for Clinton Portis. In my opinion, this was not a good idea because talent like Bailey's is extremely rare, and while Portis is a stud, I can think of a handful of NFL running backs that are close to or of his ability or even better such as LT, LJ, Stephen Jackson, Sean Alexander, Edgerrin James, Frank Gore, Thomas Jones, you could make a case for all those guys. They should have looked at what we already had in Betts, Duckett, and Sellars. Or gone through the draft! What did the colts do when they lost Edge, they got a new RB through the draft!

Champ had to go. He just didn't want to be here anymore. And we didn't have Duckett then, Betts was (is) injury-prone, and we had just re-signed Sellers a month before we traded for CP. Plus, you can't go into a season with Sellers as the every down back

2. I'm going to kinda lump the rest of these guys together. Over the last 4 years, we've continually gotten rid of solid NFL players such as Fred Smoot, AP, 56, and I know the these last two may be debatable...Walt Harris and Ryan Clark. Not only have we gotten rid of talent, but it shows that rest of the team that they're not really willing to take care of their own, and it destroys team chemistry and comradery.

I'll give you Pierce but Arrington did nothing all year (injured....again) and Smoot has been average at best; not to mention his off the field indiscretions

3. I know this is also debateable, but bringing in Mark Brunell. We had a young, promising quarter back in Ramsey, and we decided to bring in an old man. Yes, he went went to the playoffs with him, but I don't think he was really key in doing so. Other than that, we've had two losing season with him, and Gibbs's allegiance to him has hurt the team because he kept him Brunell in longer than he should have.

Don't feel like beating this Barbaro any longer...(too soon?)

4. Carlos Rodgers. We had a chance at Ware and Merriman, and we passed up on both of them. Maybe we needed a cornerback, but guess what, maybe we shouldn't have gotten rid of Smoot and Bailey! If we woulda kept them, maybe we would not have drafted Carlos, and we'd a have a pro bowler in either Ware or Merriman, instead of a guy who drops interceptions, and says there's nothing he can do about it when he gets burned for TDs.

I'll give Carlos another year before I pass judgement.

5. I don't think I need to go into detail about the cap situaton, AA, Lloyd, and trading a 3rd rounder for Duckett.

Are we hurting cap wise?

[gabe1984]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

You have good points, but you can say that about ANY other team in the league.

I partially agree with you on that statement, but I think there's something that should be added at the end. I'm assuming that what you're referring to with the statement "you can say that about ANY other team in the league," is that all other teams go through a period where they make bad personnel decisions? Yes, you can say that, I agree. But I don't think you can say there's another team who has made bad personnel decisions with the longevity that the Redskins have.

Take for example, the Ravens and the Patriots. The Ravens have had a horrible time finding a QB since they've been in Baltimore, that is one area where historically they're made bad personnel decisions. But they've been so good in most other areas that they been a solid football team and have won a superbowl in a very short time, their team is not plagued with bad decisions.

And the Patriots, yes, they let some great players go, like McGuinnest, Branch, Givens, and Ty Law. BUT, they were able to keep them there long enough to win three Superbowls.

The Redskins have nothing show.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Sure they don't, but aside from anomalies like the Pats, who else can boast that?

[gabe1984]

TAFKAS. Arrington, was a leader on our team and we got rid of him. He brought a fierce presence, a swagger, and was loved by everyone in DC. We should have kept him, IMO.

As far as Champ goes, if he wanted to go that bad, then fine, let him go, but we should have got more for him. We gave him and a draft pick for Portis, if anything they shoulda given us the draft pick, that's just bad negotiating.

Ok, I'll wait another season to pass judement on roders too , but I guess my point is that if we woulda kept smoot, who up to this point has played much better than Carlos, then maybe we coulda got Merriman or Ware in the draft. I don't see Carlos ever being as good as either of them.