The Return Of Cb Stability

[GiantsSuck703]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I believe the point would be that Alan Branch contributed to the nation's #1 ranking against the run, and had something to do with allowing only 43.4 yards per game on the ground.

Thanks for clarifying it, i really thought he would have figured that out on his own, but i guess not

[Daseal]

Carriker is a great player. Unfortunately for us, he's been flying up the draft boards. NFL radio predicted he'd be a top 10 pick come draft time. Perhaps even the first DE taken by either us or Arizona.

I think we're okay at DT. Nothing great, but okay. At this point, I wouldn't even be opposed to trading away our first this year for a first and a 3rd or 1st and 2nd next year. Depending on which team we can get it from.

[GiantsSuck703]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

As you can tell from my sig, I'm with you -- but man, this guy's stock is dropping big time.

In addition to his alleged weight problem, he's been described as lazy and takes several plays off. His stats aren't all that impressive either. Now, that could be because he gathers so much attention and double teams that other guys wind up making the tackle. I'd be interested to know what other D-tackles are expected to go in the first round, but I haven't heard of any. Branch is practically the only player at his position that you hear about good or bad.

I used to be a 100% draft Alan Branch guy -- but the more negative things I hear about him, I have to admit that percentage has dropped to about 94-96%.

If we could trade down and be able to get the next best defensive tackle, and a defensive end, that would be ideal.

Amobi Okoye is the second rated DT in the draft

[GiantsSuck703]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

As you can tell from my sig, I'm with you -- but man, this guy's stock is dropping big time.

In addition to his alleged weight problem, he's been described as lazy and takes several plays off. His stats aren't all that impressive either. Now, that could be because he gathers so much attention and double teams that other guys wind up making the tackle. I'd be interested to know what other D-tackles are expected to go in the first round, but I haven't heard of any. Branch is practically the only player at his position that you hear about good or bad.

I used to be a 100% draft Alan Branch guy -- but the more negative things I hear about him, I have to admit that percentage has dropped to about 94-96%.

If we could trade down and be able to get the next best defensive tackle, and a defensive end, that would be ideal.

Isnt that the same reason Tommie Harris fell to the Bears?

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I think we're okay at DT. Nothing great, but okay. At this point, I wouldn't even be opposed to trading away our first this year for a first and a 3rd or 1st and 2nd next year. Depending on which team we can get it from.

Man, I wish I the faith that others do in our defensive tackles.

To me, relying on Griffin, Salave'a, Golston and Montgomery for another season against the run leaves us about as vulnerable as walking around high school in our underwear.

[Crat92]

Good people that's all well and good, but how does that translate to the NFL? How good was he against competition? What did the Buckeyes do against that no.1 rated rush D? The Chris Wells run alone was longer than their per game average! People there are no Northwesterns or Indianas in the NFL. All I'm sayin is the guy is okay.

[GiantsSuck703]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Man, I wish I the faith that others do in our defensive tackles.

To me, relying on Griffin, Salave'a, Golston and Montgomery for another season against the run leaves us about as vulnerable as walking around high school in our underwear.

same here

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Crat92

Good people that's all well and good, but how does that translate to the NFL? How good was he against competition? What did the Buckeyes do against that no.1 rated rush D? The Chris Wells run alone was longer than their per game average! People there are no Northwesterns or Indianas in the NFL. All I'm sayin is the guy is okay.

Then you must really hate the draft -- because you can make that statement about every single college player! Pick your favorite draft prospect -- we could challenge you with the very same questions!

There is NO guarantee that any stud in college will dominate in the NFL. You still have to go by the best information that's available to you and make the best selection you can based on that info.

The draft is a crap shoot. Nothing more.

[Crat92]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Then you must really hate the draft -- because you can make that statement about every single college player! Pick your favorite draft prospect -- we could challenge you with the very same questions!

There is NO guarantee that any stud in college will dominate in the NFL. You still have to go by the best information that's available to you and make the best selection you can based on that info.

The draft is a crap shoot. Nothing more.

Exactly! I think if we traded down he would still be there. No.6 is awfully high for a guy with a weight issue.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by GiantsSuck703

Isnt that the same reason Tommie Harris fell to the Bears?

Well, I don't remember what they said about Tommie Harris. He turned out to be a stud that's for sure.

Another factor that must be considered is who the draft prospects teammates are, how will they gel? Will there be good chemistry?

I go back to San Fransisco in the early 90's. They had just been eaten up by Emmitt Smith and the Cowboys in the NFC Championship game. So what do they do? They go out and promptly draft Dana Stubblefield from Kansas (who really was a good player as a 49er) in 1993, then they draft Bryant Young out of Notre Dame a year later. Next thing you know, they have the best tandem of defensive tackles in the league for years to come. Sometimes it works like that.

Then, you have your DeWayne Roberstons, Gerard Warrens, Jimmy Kennedys, Jonathan Sullivans -- you know, the busts. They're everywhere. But you have to wonder how much better those guys would have been if the right guy was lined up next to him? It's like talented musicians -- if they never find each other, one of them is unlikely to turn mediocre musicians into a great band. But when they do find each other, it's like magic.

Boy, I'm really rambling here... I'm not even sure what my point is ...

So yeah, maybe all the doubters are wrong about Alan Branch and he'll be our Dave Butz for years to come!

[Misterbillysells]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

The problem is that we have depth-quality players in starting roles.

Don't kid yourself, this defensive line is atrocious. As someone else pointed out, 16 sacks -- by far the worst in the league -- and #27 against the run? Come on, what more proof do you need that these guys are old and ineffective? Griffin is probably OK as long as a young, pocket-collapsing renegade lines up next to him. But Salave'a might as well cash in his chips, the man can't hold up for 16 games anymore. Golston and Montgomery are long-term projects for #3 rotation spots at best. They aren't taking us anywhere.

Darrell Green in his prime, along with Champ, Smoot on his best day, and Rogers finally living up to his #9 overall billing won't matter one bit when the QB has all day to throw. Not to mention when those guys in the secondary are forced to make the tackle on a running play 10-15 yards past the line of scrimmage.

The defensive line is dreadful. Witness Tiki Barber's final performance at Fed Ex Field for proof positive of that.

I guess for me the big thing is that a year ago most people felt that our d-line was solid and that the addition of carter would only make it better. Then with injuries in secondary we were forced to back our defense off the line and blitz less so teams were able to gash us with the running game and we werent able to generate as much of pass rush. Suddenly we have a terrible d-line with no one worth keeping. Has our line really aged that much in one year? Or maybe was it the broader circumstance of the whole defensive scheme having to shift to cover our vunerability in the secondary. If we dont try to add young depth secondary we will be in the same situation as soon as springs leaves. Plan for the future and draft a corner. Dropping down in the draft to get both seems ideal but if not i think corner is still a more pressing long term problem than our d-line.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GiantsSuck703

Why do you think Branch will be the next Big Daddy?

The big knock on him is he takes plays off and lack a high motor. He's huge though and takes up space, sounds like another Big Daddy to me.

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

I really like our secondary now with Smoot coming home. Now I think we need to focus on the Dline and Oline we need more pics and can get a couple of good players later in the first round, second round, and possibly the third.

Will we get an extra draft pick for losing Dock to free agency this year or next? I would think it would be at the end of the third round. I like where we are going from here. I like the FO not going crazy.

I have another interesting question for you guys if we clear out some of the front office why not brimg Charlie Casserly back to Washington. He's not doing much right now.

[MTK]

It's too late in the offseason to be thinking about a GM, we would have needed to make that move back in January.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Misterbillysells

I guess for me the big thing is that a year ago most people felt that our d-line was solid and that the addition of carter would only make it better. Then with injuries in secondary we were forced to back our defense off the line and blitz less so teams were able to gash us with the running game and we werent able to generate as much of pass rush. Suddenly we have a terrible d-line with no one worth keeping. Has our line really aged that much in one year? Or maybe was it the broader circumstance of the whole defensive scheme having to shift to cover our vunerability in the secondary. If we dont try to add young depth secondary we will be in the same situation as soon as springs leaves. Plan for the future and draft a corner. Dropping down in the draft to get both seems ideal but if not i think corner is still a more pressing long term problem than our d-line.

Well, I didn't feel the D-line was solid last year. I didn't think it was solid in 2005 either, but it turned out to be enough. This franchise has feverishly avoided upgrading the defensive line for years. Kenard Lang was the last high pick at that position back in 1997 -- with a completely different front office. And nothing impressed me about Andre Carter -- he was a dud on a really bad San Fransisco team. I don't know what anyone should have expected from him.

The injuries you refer to was chiefly Shawn Springs. When he went down, we couldn't blitz because none of the other guys in the secondary couldn't hold things down on their own. When your entire pass rush hinges on a cornerback then you had big problems to begin with.

And yes, I do believe this line got old and bad in a hurry. That's not uncommon in this league. Neglecting to plant some seeds along the D-line was like setting the clock on a ticking time-bomb. And in 2006 that time- bomb went off. We couldn't stop anybody, and we couldn't get near the quarterback. Hell, we couldn't do that in 2004 or 2005 either, we had to blitz linebackers and safeties in order to do that! It was like lightening striking twice if one of our defensive lineman was able to sack the quarterback.

Some will say that Gregg Williams system is set up that way. Maybe so. But we saw what happens when the secondary can't cover anybody and the linebackers are forced to make the tackle 6 or 7 yards after the line of scrimmage. If you had any sort of pressure up front, your bad secondary could concentrate on staying with their receivers. Last year we had to lay off the blitz and there was ZERO pressure on the quarterback.

Result: #31 overall in defense. We can't count on Griffin, Salave'a, Golston and Montgomery for another year anymore than we could with another year of Mike Rumph, Kenny Wright, or Adam Archuleta. If we do nothing with the D-line, expect more bad defense for 2007.