Gun Restrictions and Your Rights

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Sure, that's true, but wouldn't that change if they were made totally illegal? Sure, they're "tough" laws, but the fact you can get one period makes it accessible to almost anyone. While I don't want to see the law repealed, I want to see some MAJOR changes.

I also agree that gun laws need a major overhaul, but that'll only fix some of the problems. A thorough background check and mandatory waiting period should be enforced on all guns. That'd prevent some medicated kid that didn't get picked in a basketball game from walking into Walmart and buying a shotgun and coming back and blasting everyone. It wouldn't do much to deter a 23 year old that lives in a college town(where basically anything is accessible if you look hard enough) from finding a handgun. Those kinds of situations can't be fixed with gun laws.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I would think that more disclosure from medical records could help. Maybe if someone is admitted to counseling or is taking certain types of drugs, they aren't allowed to have one.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I don't think anyone doubts that there are some, or even many, situations in which a gun would be useful, but such situations are vastly outweighed by instances in which a kid is filled by a gun accidentally going off, a gun being used against the owner by a criminal, etc. I simply don't believe that pro-gun lobbyists can honestly argue that the proliferation of guns is a good thing for society.

I really believe the only legitimate argument supporting gun ownership is that it is a constitutional and long-held right. I would still debate the point, but at least it's a valid argument.

Accidental shootings are very rare and people have a greater chance of falling off a ladder and dying than by accidental shooting. Yes, it does happen.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I don't think anyone doubts that there are some, or even many, situations in which a gun would be useful, but such situations are vastly outweighed by instances in which a kid is filled by a gun accidentally going off, a gun being used against the owner by a criminal, etc. I simply don't believe that pro-gun lobbyists can honestly argue that the proliferation of guns is a good thing for society.

I really believe the only legitimate argument supporting gun ownership is that it is a constitutional and long-held right. I would still debate the point, but at least it's a valid argument.

I think your argument here is faulty.

First off the instances of children dying or being injured by a gun accidently are drastically smaller than instnces of self-defense using a gun. Just arguing numbers there. If you are talking about the weighting of each data set then that's a whole different argument.

As for criminals using an owner's gun against them I think that is even lower than instances of children getting accidently shot.

To me it comes down to one question:

How many criminals are going to be denied access to guns by outlawing guns?

If we can figure out a way to keep guns out of ALL criminals hands then I am all for outlawing guns but I have never heard of any ideas on how that would ever happen. I think criminals are going to have guns no matter what. Maybe less criminals will have guns but how much will the ones who do have them feel emboldened by the notion that whatever house they are breaking into or whichever woman they are going to attack and rape is not going to have a gun? Guns offer protection against these criminals and taking away that available protection isn't just a bad idea I think it is morally corrupt. The problem isn't guns. It is stupid/evil people getting them. How do we stop those people is what we need to figure out. A kneejerk reaction of outlawing guns for everyone is simply creating different problems. Problems that could be even worse.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Tell that to my buddy who has a carry permit and he, his wife and daughter where attacked. They may have just wanted his wallet and her purse but we don't know what they may have done. When they saw his gun they ran away as fast as they could go.

This is one of the few times when a gun was helpful, but it's anecdotal evidence. I need some concrete numbers to weigh the costs and benefits. The benefits of owning guns are few, but the costs are many. Consider:

- In 2003, 11,290 Americans were killed by Assault by Firearm. If you add up all other forms of murder, you don't even get half that many. The number of murders would drop if guns were outlawed. Some would still occur

- In 2003, 730 people were killed by accidental discharge of firearms. Gun accidents that could have been drastically reduced if guns weren't easily available.

- In 2003, there were 16,907 suicides by firearm. I know a good portion of these people would still kill themselves if the didn't have access to a gun. But blowing your brains out is the easiest way to do it. A number would be saved.

- There were 232 other deaths caused by firearm where the police weren't able to figure out what the intent was; ie was it murder, suicide, or accident.

This data comes from the NSC's website: Odds of Dying - NSC

Firstdown, that CCW data you posted is from 1992, before the Brady Bill even went into effect. It's so old, it's completely irrelevant now. Not to mention a quite biased source of information. If you can provide some relevant, unbiased statistics on guns as a crime deterrent, I'm all ears. But I haven't seen any, and I've looked.

[FRPLG]

Oh and I don't own a gun and probably never will. But ask anyone who is alive today because they had a gun whether the country should take that right away because OTHERS do bad things with them. I don't think many of them would support that.

[firstdown]

Here is a site which list reasons of death in the USA. Just do a quick stroll down and check out the the different charts its kind of interesting.

CAUSES OF DEATH

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Accidental shootings are very rare and people have a greater chance of falling off a ladder and dying than by accidental shooting. Yes, it does happen.

Yes, but that's because more people climb on ladders than pick up loaded guns.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

This is one of the few times when a gun was helpful, but it's anecdotal evidence. I need some concrete numbers to weigh the costs and benefits. The benefits of owning guns are few, but the costs are many. Consider:

- In 2003, 11,290 Americans were killed by Assault by Firearm. If you add up all other forms of murder, you don't even get half that many. The number of murders would drop if guns were outlawed. Some would still occur

- In 2003, 730 people were killed by accidental discharge of firearms. Gun accidents that could have been drastically reduced if guns weren't easily available.

- In 2003, there were 16,907 suicides by firearm. I know a good portion of these people would still kill themselves if the didn't have access to a gun. But blowing your brains out is the easiest way to do it. A number would be saved.

- There were 232 other deaths caused by firearm where the police weren't able to figure out what the intent was; ie was it murder, suicide, or accident.

This data comes from the NSC's website: Odds of Dying - NSC

Firstdown, that CCW data you posted is from 1992, before the Brady Bill even went into effect. It's so old, it's completely irrelevant now. Not to mention a quite biased source of information. If you can provide some relevant, unbiased statistics on guns as a crime deterrent, I'm all ears. But I haven't seen any, and I've looked.

There are numerous self-defense with guns surveys available on the internet and all report that instances of self-defsne via gun per year number at least 700,000. Most of the surveys put the numbers in the millions.

One statistic from a 97 study(i'll need to find a link for it) reports that every 12 seconds an American defends him or herself with a gun.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

There are numerous self-defense with guns surveys available on the internet and all report that instances of self-defsne via gun per year number at least 700,000. Most of the surveys put the numbers in the millions.

One statistic from a 97 study(i'll need to find a link for it) reports that every 12 seconds an American defends him or herself with a gun.

I'll need to see it, I'm keeping my mind open, but I need to see numbers.

[dmek25]

one of my buddies was just bragging at work the other day because he had just purchased an AK 47. what exactly would someone use that for?

[Hog1]

Anything, any other gun is used for. There are MANY collectors in the world as well. Realistically, probably because he can.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by dmek25

one of my buddies was just bragging at work the other day because he had just purchased an AK 47. what exactly would someone use that for?

They're used to hunt today's super animals like the flying squirrel and the electric eel...

[TheMalcolmConnection]

To put in your crotch where you obviously are lacking in that department if you need an AK-47.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

They're used to hunt today's super animals like the flying squirrel and the electric eel...

Moose and squirrel!