Disgusted with Bonds?

[Hog1]

I personally do not know of a "clean" way out of this. However, I would not allow bonds to achieve the honor until an investigation in the steroid is blah, blah, doubletalk, blah, complete.
You just.........can't. In spite of what's easy, convenient, somtimes you MUST do the hard thing. The RIGHT thing. Stand up and be counted MLB. In the long run, I think more good than bad will come out of where the the fans are concerned.
Nuremberg trials for MLB? If not they can drown in their own vomit.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Agreed 1000%.

Hog1, you are WAY oversimplifying. I mean if you don't care at all about being fair and evenhanded, then yeah I guess you can strip Barry Bonds of all his records and achievements. Of course then you'd be telling baseball players that it's OK if you use steroids to:

- Falsely boost your production to make a lot more money
- Help your team win by using banned substances
- Rack up stats that could get you into the HOF
- And this is all OK as long as you don't break Hank Aaron's record

It makes no sense. You take one guy down, you have to take them all down.

Now if we get PROOF that Bonds cheated, rather than just supposition, then yeah, Baseball has every right to take Bonds out of the record books. But right now the best we have is supposition (albeit strong supposition, but it's supposition nonetheless) by some reporters that Barry took steroids from his trainer. If you're going to go after someone just because you suspect them, don't you have to go after a lot of other guys that are suspect? Starts to sound a lot like the Salem Witch Hunt, going after people because you are suspicious.

If he's guilty, Bonds has to go down. If he's guilty-no record. If Mcguire, and the rest get caught in the investigation, so be it.
Does anybody think MLB has any integrity left? I would gain renewed respect them for them if they pursued it. I don't think I would be in the minority.
If they have to have their own inquisition, let's get started.

By the way:

Originally Posted by firstdown
If no one can prove Bonds took roids then there is nothing that can be done. Its that simple

[MonkFan4Life]

I'm not disgusted with Barry Bonds, no the's his body his choice. Was he wrong ? YES. I actually like to watch the guy hit. I remember when he was going for McQuire's single season record and his eye for pitches amazed me. Steroids or not the guy is a damn fine ball player. Baseball has always been a sport of cheats to me, just my opinion. Now I'm not condoning what the man did because it was wrong but what honestly put me on Bonds' side was that when McGuire and Sosa saved the game of baseball along with Cal Ripken and his Iron Man streak thing no one thought about asking about roids. As soon as Bonds got close to the holiest of holy's in Ruth's record people got scared because the numbers that make baseball what it is were being threatened. I kept hearing about how Ruth did it the right way at a time when you had teams payed off to throw the WORLD EFFIN SERIES ! I'm not saying there's a guarantee that Ruth cheated it's just that Bonds meant nothing until he got close to Ruth. THEN everone got conciences and wanted to clean things up. Conseco comes out with a book and there you have it.

Baseball did it to themselves, Chicks dig the long ball right ? I can't wait for Bonds to break the record, I'll be cheering right along with alot of the fans in San Fran because everywhere else it wouldn't be the "right" thing to do. If Hank isn't there, so what. Does he need him there?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

I'm not disgusted with Barry Bonds, no the's his body his choice. Was he wrong ? YES. I actually like to watch the guy hit. I remember when he was going for McQuire's single season record and his eye for pitches amazed me. Steroids or not the guy is a damn fine ball player. Baseball has always been a sport of cheats to me, just my opinion. Now I'm not condoning what the man did because it was wrong but what honestly put me on Bonds' side was that when McGuire and Sosa saved the game of baseball along with Cal Ripken and his Iron Man streak thing no one thought about asking about roids. As soon as Bonds got close to the holiest of holy's in Ruth's record people got scared because the numbers that make baseball what it is were being threatened. I kept hearing about how Ruth did it the right way at a time when you had teams payed off to throw the WORLD EFFIN SERIES ! I'm not saying there's a guarantee that Ruth cheated it's just that Bonds meant nothing until he got close to Ruth. THEN everone got conciences and wanted to clean things up. Conseco comes out with a book and there you have it.

Baseball did it to themselves, Chicks dig the long ball right ? I can't wait for Bonds to break the record, I'll be cheering right along with alot of the fans in San Fran because everywhere else it wouldn't be the "right" thing to do. If Hank isn't there, so what. Does he need him there?

Good post. The real shame, as you point out, is that Bonds never even needed to do this. He was one of the greatest players ever long before this record. And he's not the first "bad guy" in baseball, not by a long shot

[Hog1]

Is that what you teach your kids? or will? It's NOT ok to cheat except?

[SmootSmack]

If you're not cheating, you're not trying

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

I guess I didn't realize that baseball had any integrity left to lose.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I guess I didn't realize that baseball had any integrity left to lose.

You may have it SGG.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Good post. The real shame, as you point out, is that Bonds never even needed to do this. He was one of the greatest players ever long before this record. And he's not the first "bad guy" in baseball, not by a long shot

I think a lot of players use the roids to help rehab from injuries. Assuming he's on the roids, he's probably reaping the benefits right now more than any other time, because they're probably helping keep him in good enough condition to withstand injury and keep him in decent enough shape at age 42.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

If you're not cheating, you're not trying

I'm out!

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I think a lot of players use the roids to help rehab from injuries. Assuming he's on the roids, he's probably reaping the benefits right now more than any other time, because they're probably helping keep him in good enough condition to withstand injury and keep him in decent enough shape at age 42.

If he had retired after the 1998 season-I think most agree up to that point he was clean right?-do you think he'd have been a Hall of Famer? First ballot?

[FRPLG]

I agree that baseball has no integrity. And I agree that sometimes you have to bite the bullet and make a hard decison in life. But the reality of THIS situation is that it is a business and they cannot simply go and make the RIGHT moral/ethical decision without consideration of what is best for business. To you and many others(including me) just wiping these guys out and never speaking of them again is the right ethical/moral way to go and would be a great way to begin building a foundation of integrity that would strengthen the games appeal. But you would have to PROVE they were guilty and totally wipe out as many as you could fairly. The problem with that is that there are a majority of lesser thinking people out there that would see it is a reason to just give up on baseball once and for all. Many people just float along with their head in the sand to this type of stuff because it is easier and more enjoyable. Presented with the cheating as a these people would most likely give up on baseball because it would be the easy thing to do. I think MLB is rightly concerned that conducting a witch hunt to fairly exercise the game of all cheaters. cheater stats and cheater records would end the game in this conutry as a major sport. It would flush millions upon millions of dollars in equity and value down the drain and potentially lead to real contraction within the sport. In a time when they are facing an gigantic uphill battle with both football and basketball they simply cannot give up that ground. So they choose to implement a real testing policy to get the idiots out and to stop the performance enhancing as much as possible and wait a decade or so to have all this stuff wash away. Sure it leaves tainted stats and records but that is a smaller price to pay than potentially destrooying the game. It is the choice between two evils and they are chooisng the lesser of the two.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

If he had retired after the 1998 season-I think most agree up to that point he was clean right?-do you think he'd have been a Hall of Famer? First ballot?

Beyond any doubt.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I agree that baseball has no integrity. And I agree that sometimes you have to bite the bullet and make a hard decison in life. But the reality of THIS situation is that it is a business and they cannot simply go and make the RIGHT moral/ethical decision without consideration of what is best for business. To you and many others(including me) just wiping these guys out and never speaking of them again is the right ethical/moral way to go and would be a great way to begin building a foundation of integrity that would strengthen the games appeal. But you would have to PROVE they were guilty and totally wipe out as many as you could fairly. The problem with that is that there are a majority of lesser thinking people out there that would see it is a reason to just give up on baseball once and for all. Many people just float along with their head in the sand to this type of stuff because it is easier and more enjoyable. Presented with the cheating as a these people would most likely give up on baseball because it would be the easy thing to do. I think MLB is rightly concerned that conducting a witch hunt to fairly exercise the game of all cheaters. cheater stats and cheater records would end the game in this conutry as a major sport. It would flush millions upon millions of dollars in equity and value down the drain and potentially lead to real contraction within the sport. In a time when they are facing an gigantic uphill battle with both football and basketball they simply cannot give up that ground. So they choose to implement a real testing policy to get the idiots out and to stop the performance enhancing as much as possible and wait a decade or so to have all this stuff wash away. Sure it leaves tainted stats and records but that is a smaller price to pay than potentially destrooying the game. It is the choice between two evils and they are chooisng the lesser of the two.

Well said.

This issue is definitely not black & white, and as always, the devil is in the details.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

If he had retired after the 1998 season-I think most agree up to that point he was clean right?-do you think he'd have been a Hall of Famer? First ballot?

Yeah definitely HOF based on his pre roids resume alone.