SGG's Pick the President Poll

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

He'd be last on my list by far. Take it from a New Yorker, he was a joke prior to 9/11.

In what ways?

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by saden1

Virgina is no longer a gimme for Republicans...too many liberals in Norther Virginia who take offense to him using the word Macaca.

i agree that northern va. is FOOL of liberals. i think geoge allen got the shaft because people were pissed off at bush, so they took their anger out by voting in a dem. the whole macaca thing was just used as a smokescreen, not too many people really cared about that.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by saden1

In what ways?

He was basically seen as a self centered jerk who's approval rating was in the mid 30's prior to 9/11. After that all of a sudden the guy was national hero for what? Appearing on TV and attending funerals?

What most people haven't seen is some of the problems the city has faced post 9/11 with air quality, the WTC cleanup and safety and well being of the workers that are now sick due to the lack of proper safety measures.

Does everyone realize his first wife was his 2nd cousin?

Some other gems:

Race Relations

A well-known Harlem minister, Calvin O. Butts, who had previously supported Giuliani for re-electon, said of the Mayor, "I don't believe he likes black people. And I believe there's something fundamentally wrong in the way we are disregarded, the way we are mistreated, and the way our communities are being devastated. I had some hope that he was the kind of person you could deal with. I've just about lost that hope."[58] When Butts supported Governor George Pataki's re-election, Giuliani told Pataki he should not accept Butts' support (Pataki did accept Butts' endorsement).[59] Giuliani diverted funds away from projects connected to Butts after the minister criticized him.[60]


Immigration and Illegal Immigration

Giuliani was criticized for embracing illegal immigrants.[61][62] Giuliani continued a policy of preventing city employees from contacting the Immigration and Naturalization Service about immigration violations, on the grounds that illegal aliens must be able to take actions such as to send their children to school or report crime and violations without fear of deportation. He ordered city attorneys to defend this policy in federal court. The court ruled that New York City's sanctuary laws were illegal. After the City of New York lost an appeal to the United States Supreme Court, Giuliani vowed to ignore the law.[63] Giuliani also expressed doubt that the federal government can completely stop illegal immigration.[64] In 1996, Giuliani said, "I believe the anti-immigration movement in America is one of our most serious public problems." In 2000, Giuliani said of New York City, "Immigration is a very positive force for the City of New York. Immigration is the key to the city's success. Both historically and to this very day."[65]


Virginia Trash Controversy

On January 13, 1999, Giuliani suggested a "reciprocal relationship" where other states such as Virginia should accept New York City's garbage. Then Governor of Virginia, Jim Gilmore III, wrote in response, "I am offended by your suggestion that New York's substantial cultural achievements, such as they are, obligate Virginia and other states to accept your garbage".[92][93]


Board of Education

Giuliani expressed frustration with the New York City Board of Education. He was on record as saying in April 1999 that he would like to "blow up" the [then] Board of Education.[94][95] This statement was made two days after the Columbine massacre.[96]


Criticism for lack of preparedness before the 9/11 attacks

In September 2006, Village Voice writer Wayne Barrett and senior producer for CBSNews.com, Dan Collins, published The Grand Illusion: The Untold Story of Rudy Giuliani and 9/11,[111] one of the strongest reassessments of Giuliani's role in the events of 9/11. The book highlights his decision to locate the Office of Emergency Management headquarters (long-identified as a target for a terrorist attack) on the 23rd floor inside the 7 World Trade Center building, a decision that had been criticized at the time in light of the previous terrorist attack against the World Trade Center in 1993.[112] Large tanks of diesel fuel were placed in 7 World Trade to power the command center, and this fuel was later deemed responsible for the intense fire that caused that building to collapse hours after the Twin Towers.[113]In May 2007, Giuliani put responsibility for selecting the location on Jerome M. Hauer, New York City’s first emergency management director who had been appointed by Giuliani himself and had served under Giuliani for five years at the time of the attack; Hauer has taken exception to that account in interviews and has provided the New York Times with a memo demonstrating that he recommended a location in Brooklyn but was overruled by Giuliani.[114] [19] Also criticized was Giuliani's focus on personal projects and turf wars rather than vital precautions for the city, and his role in communications failures (which may have been the result of patronage deals inside City Hall). Kirkus Reviews stated, "Giuliani may not have been directly responsible for all those woes, but they happened on his watch".[115]
Some family members of 9/11 victims have openly criticized Giuliani for the significant communication failures that occurred on that day, believing that the lack of working walkie-talkies put the lives of first responders in significant danger. In December 2006, Sally Regenhard, mother of firefighter Christian Regenhard who died on September 11, and co-founder of the Skyscraper Safety Campaign, vowed to expose the truths of Giuliani's actions on 9/11 before 2008, stating, "I can't see why any 9/11 family member who knows the truth about the failures of the Giuliani administration . . . would not be outraged."[116]
By April of 2007 it was reported that Giuliani had been forced to limit his appearances in New York City due to the increasing protests by family members of 9/11 victims, particularly police, fire and other emergency workers. [117]

Criticism for handling of Ground Zero air quality issue

Giuliani has been subject to increased criticism for downplaying the health effects of the air in the Financial District and lower Manhattan areas in the vicinity of the Ground Zero.[118] He moved quickly to reopen Wall Street, and it was reopened on September 17. He said, in the first month after the attacks, "The air quality is safe and acceptable."[119] However, in the weeks after the attacks, the United States Geological Survey identified hundreds of asbestos hot spots of debris dust that remained on buildings. By the end of the month the USGS reported that the toxicity of the debris was akin to that of drain cleaner.[120]It would eventually be determined that a wide swath of lower Manhattan and Brooklyn had been heavily contaminated by highly caustic and toxic materials.[120][121] The city's health agencies, such as the Department of Environmental Protection, did not supervise or issue guidelines for the testing and cleanup of private buildings. Instead, the city left this responsibility to building owners.[120]
Firefighters, police and their unions, have criticized Giuliani over the issue of protective equipment and illnesses after the attacks.[118]An October 2001 study by the National Institute of Environmental Safety and Health said that cleanup workers lacked adequate protective gear.[122] The Executive Director of the National Fraternal Order of Police reportedly said of Giuliani: "Everybody likes a Churchillian kind of leader who jumps up when the ashes are still falling and takes over. But two or three good days don't expunge an eight-year record."[20] Sally Regenhard, said, "There's a large and growing number of both FDNY families, FDNY members, former and current, and civilian families who want to expose the true failures of the Giuliani administration when it comes to 9/11." She told the New York Daily News that she intends to "Swift Boat" Giuliani.[123]
A May 14, 2007 New York Times article, "Ground Zero Illness Clouding Giuliani's Legacy," gave the interpretation that thousands of workers at Ground Zero have become sick and that "many regard Mr. Giuliani's triumph of leadership as having come with a human cost." The article reported that Giuiliani seized control of the cleanup of Ground Zero, taking control away from experienced federal agencies, such as the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the Army Corps of Engineers and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. He instead handed over responsibility to the "largely unknown" city Department of Design and Contruction. Documents indicate that the Giuliani administration never enforced federal requirements requiring the wearing of respirators. Concurrently, the administration threatened companies with dismissal if cleanup work slowed.[124]
Giuliani wrote to the city's Congressional delegation and urged that the city's liability for Ground Zero illnesses be limited, in total, at $350 million. Two years after Mayor Giuliani finished his term, FEMA appropriated $1 billion to a special insurace fund to protect the city against 9/11 lawsuits.[125]
Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton is contemplating calling Giulani to testify before a Senate committee on whether the government failed to protect recovery workers from the effects of polluted Ground Zero air.[126][127]

Aftermath of Ground Zero recovery effort

In February 2007, the International Association of Fire Fighters issued a letter accusing Giuliani of "egregious acts" against the 343 firemen who had died in the September 11th attacks. The letter asserted that Giuliani rushed to conclude the recovery effort once gold and silver had been recovered from World Trade Center vaults and thereby prevented the remains of many victims from being recovered: "Mayor Giuliani's actions meant that fire fighters and citizens who perished would either remain buried at Ground Zero forever, with no closure for families, or be removed like garbage and deposited at the Fresh Kills Landfill," it said, adding: "Hundreds remained entombed in Ground Zero when Giuliani gave up on them."[128] Lawyers for the International Association of Fire Fighters seek to interview Giuliani under oath as part of a federal legal action alleging that New York City negligently dumped body parts and other human remains in the Fresh Kills Landfill.[129]

IAFF-sponsored presidential forum

Giuliani declined to appear at the International Association of Fire Fighters (IAFF) sponsored March 14, 2007 forum. The IAFF's bipartisan presidential forum in Washington, D.C., included ten other major Democratic and Republican candidates seeking their support for their Presidential aspirations. The relations between Giuliani and the firefighters' union are strained due to their contention that he abandoned efforts to recover remains and effects of firefighters and other victims in the rubble of the World Trade Center, despite his public posturing of support.[130][131] [132]

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Giuliani in the lead??!!

God let's hope this poll isn't indicative of the voting public.

Prior to 9/11 this guy was a joke, he still is but he's been put on a pedestal by some people since 9/11.

Yeah I heard Ben Affleck saying that, too. Wasn't he re-elected before 9-11, though? I guess he wasn't as much of a joke as the Democrat he was running against. At any rate, 9-11 did happen. I don't see any reason to exclude his response to those events when making an evaluation.

It's a little like saying, "Before D-Day, nobody ever heard of Eisenhower." Now someone will tell us how D-Day is fundamentally different from 9-11:

[saden1]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Yeah I heard Ben Affleck saying that, too. Wasn't he re-elected before 9-11, though? I guess he wasn't as much of a joke as the Democrat he was running against. At any rate, 9-11 did happen. I don't see any reason to exclude his response to those events when making an evaluation.

It's a little like saying, "Before D-Day, nobody ever heard of Eisenhower." Now someone will tell us how D-Day is fundamentally different from 9-11:

If you're talking about that someone being me, you've hit the jackpot. It takes a lot of balls to put 9/11 in the company of the day WW2 was won. 9/11 is insignificant when compared to a war that practicality involved the entire world. A war in which 60 million people are estimated to have lost their lives.

As for Rudy, he's not even half a toe nail let alone half the man Dwigh Eisenhower was.

[SmootSmack]

Ike was the man!

Matty, how would you compare Rudy and Pataki?

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Rudy is definately a polarizing individual. I know a lot of New Yorkers who cannot stand the guy. I know a lot of other New Yorkers or all political stripes who, before 9/11, said the guy took a run-down, ugly, and crime-ridden NYC and made it shiny and new.

To be honest, I like the guy for his courage. No, I'm not talking about his actions during 9/11. I'm talking about his ability to take so many stands that cross party-lines. I personally question the intellect of anyone who stands by their party on each and every issue. Rudy is pro-gay marriage and pro-choice and, yet, calls himself a Republican. To me, that demonstrates that he has a certain amount of cajones and intellectual strength that I see from so few politicians, or people for that matter. I don't know whether I would ever vote for him, but he has my respect.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Having lived in NY and watched Pataki, I cannot stand the guy. He strikes me as sleezy.

[skinsfan_nn]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

"I'm just waiting on a Fred."

Ha, I love my own humor. Meantime Rudy.

Republican Fred Thompson, the 'Law & Order' star and former Tennessee senator, is expected to take steps toward a White House bid within days. He reportedly will form a "testing the waters" committee, allowing him to raise money and hire staff. Flirting with candidacy for months, he's consistently third among GOP hopefuls in Gallup polls and many pundits believe he will shake up the race if he enters. Do you think Thompson should join the 2008 campaign? And would he energize the GOP field?


Thanks for sharing the info on the book, 70chip. In short I don't think kerry can save edwards from himself.

IMO, the democrats will not win the ticket to begin with. Not to mention I think edwards will be a none factor.

There's your FRED.

[RobH4413]

My man John McCain has had several pretty serious gaffes in his past history, but IMO the good far outweighs the bad.

He was really the only guy that stood out during the latest debate, and of the GOP candidates he's the only one that appeals to me.

I was impressed with his views against torture and Guantanamo. They guy has a long track record of trying to clean up corruption, and has a ton of experience in politics.

I think it's early and there is plenty of time left, but right now it doesn't look good for him. I'll be pulling for mah boi.

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by skinsfan_nn

Republican Fred Thompson, the 'Law & Order' star and former Tennessee senator, is expected to take steps toward a White House bid within days. He reportedly will form a "testing the waters" committee, allowing him to raise money and hire staff. Flirting with candidacy for months, he's consistently third among GOP hopefuls in Gallup polls and many pundits believe he will shake up the race if he enters. Do you think Thompson should join the 2008 campaign? And would he energize the GOP field?


Thanks for sharing the info on the book, 70chip. In short I don't think kerry can save edwards from himself.

IMO, the democrats will not win the ticket to begin with. Not to mention I think edwards will be a none factor.

There's your FRED.

I've heard that Thompson joining the race is going to kill Rudy's numbers.

[Schneed10]

I'd be 100% behind either John McCain or Rudy, whichever wins the nomination. I prefer McCain, because I'm one of the very few Americans remaining who feel that we should be in Iraq.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Ike was the man!

Matty, how would you compare Rudy and Pataki?

Ugh, not a fan of Pataki either.

If I had to choose between the two I'd honestly not vote.

[hooskins]

Honestly I said Clinton, because she has the most resources backing her and everyone knows her. I think its a Obama-Clinton ticket.

Also Guiliani isn't much if it weren't for 9/11...sorry to be blunt

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by wolfeskins

i agree that northern va. is FOOL of liberals. i think geoge allen got the shaft because people were pissed off at bush, so they took their anger out by voting in a dem. the whole macaca thing was just used as a smokescreen, not too many people really cared about that.

No he got the shaft because he is a racist P.O.S. He also dropped the N word frequently at UVa, and it was a big deal when that surfaced. Of course the sleaze denied it. It is just sad this kinda overt racism is even present in politics. Says something about the values of the Republican party and who they support.