What's your defnition of 'conservative playcalling'?

[GTripp0012]

By my definition, I would say conservative play calling is simply calling any play that prioritizes limiting the chance of a mistake over gaining yards, and first downs and or points.

I think this is a GREAT thread because it does little good to criticize play calling with out first defining what conservative play calling is.

No offense can have success if the play calling is too conservative. However, it's my understanding that people in general don't themselves understand what conservative play calling is prior to voicing their opinion. By definition, a running play on third and eight is NOT CONSERVATIVE if it was called with the primary intent of picking up the first down. It can only be "conservative" if the intent was simply to waste a down without turning the ball over. Generally with the lead, you want to get more conservative as it gets later and later, and the Skins have adhered to this principle thus far. It's the execution that has prevented late game success.

[70Chip]

Everyone is saying that the offensive line is the reason we went so basic yesterday. More specifically, the reason we went so basic yesterday is that Pucillo doesn't have the knowledge to make all the calls up front. If Rabach gets back, then we can have more complexity. We still won't be able to run the ball in all likelihood, but at least the coaches won't be so afraid to let Campbell drop back. I think Gibbs just decided that if they lost the game it wasn't going to be because of a sack-fumble or an interception. There was a play in the 2nd half when Wade completely blew his pass pro for no obvious reason. He blocked down like he was suppossed to seal the guard or something and just let the end come free. I'd like to think that Rabach would help eliminate that sort of breakdown.

[redsk1]

The injured o line is a huge problem no doubt. However, you kind of got to play to win sometimes. Not throw all the time, run all the time, but create a little mix. Throw some on first...roll out or something. We had NO run game at all yesterday. Lets try to win and get a first down. The question is would you rather try to win and get a couple of first downs or take our chances on a FG that is about 50-50 chance for us to win/lose. It seems like we just were content on running for no yardage yesterday. Did anyone think that we were actually going to run for more than 3 yards on first and second down? Again the injuries are a huge deal, but we had no run game at all, so let's try to get a first down or two.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Everyone is saying that the offensive line is the reason we went so basic yesterday. More specifically, the reason we went so basic yesterday is that Pucillo doesn't have the knowledge to make all the calls up front. If Rabach gets back, then we can have more complexity. We still won't be able to run the ball in all likelihood, but at least the coaches won't be so afraid to let Campbell drop back. I think Gibbs just decided that if they lost the game it wasn't going to be because of a sack-fumble or an interception. There was a play in the 2nd half when Wade completely blew his pass pro for no obvious reason. He blocked down like he was suppossed to seal the guard or something and just let the end come free. I'd like to think that Rabach would help eliminate that sort of breakdown.

Exactly. You really can't fault the overall game plan in that one, it certainly worked. It wasn't the gameplan that gave up an onside kick, nor was it the gameplan that allowed quick passes into the flat to set up a FG attempt. That was more of an adjustment from the gameplan that needed to be made, and wasn't.

[dgack]

Conservative Playcalling: (n). A derisive term used to denigrate the coaching staff of the Washington Redskins after any loss, or victory of less than 21 points.

See also: "smoking crack", "backseat quarterbacking", "glass half empty"

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

By my definition, I would say conservative play calling is simply calling any play that prioritizes limiting the chance of a mistake over gaining yards, and first downs and or points.

I think this is a GREAT thread because it does little good to criticize play calling with out first defining what conservative play calling is.

No offense can have success if the play calling is too conservative. However, it's my understanding that people in general don't themselves understand what conservative play calling is prior to voicing their opinion. By definition, a running play on third and eight is NOT CONSERVATIVE if it was called with the primary intent of picking up the first down. It can only be "conservative" if the intent was simply to waste a down without turning the ball over. Generally with the lead, you want to get more conservative as it gets later and later, and the Skins have adhered to this principle thus far. It's the execution that has prevented late game success.

For example: every play we call on third and less than five.

Conservative? Not at all.

Stupid, ridiculous, painful to watch, predictable, and rarely successful? All of the above.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Everyone is saying that the offensive line is the reason we went so basic yesterday. More specifically, the reason we went so basic yesterday is that Pucillo doesn't have the knowledge to make all the calls up front. If Rabach gets back, then we can have more complexity. We still won't be able to run the ball in all likelihood, but at least the coaches won't be so afraid to let Campbell drop back. I think Gibbs just decided that if they lost the game it wasn't going to be because of a sack-fumble or an interception. There was a play in the 2nd half when Wade completely blew his pass pro for no obvious reason. He blocked down like he was suppossed to seal the guard or something and just let the end come free. I'd like to think that Rabach would help eliminate that sort of breakdown.

nice analysis. Gibbs II is so much more cautious than Gibbs I. Seems to me that they are really thinking long term w/each game & resting players if they feel the injury could worsen. He might've been too cautious w/the game plan, but it's hard to argue against the points you made about Pucillo. If JC got nailed & hurt we'd all be saying; why didn't he have a more conservative game plan that protected the qb?

[BrunellMVP?]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

It certainly is not. That very same conservative offense served us well in 2005, when our offense was running over everyone. The only problem is that, right now, it is not serving us well. As a run-first, smash-mouth team that cannot run the ball effectively, we do need to start passing a little more to open up the running lanes.

However, as I said above, the injuries to the O-line undoubtedly have a big effect on the offense and it is unclear if Saunders is failing to call deep/intermediate passing plays or JC is simply checking down. Moreover, the deep passing game has been there in weeks past, just not against the Cards.

Although all of our woes on offense cannot be attributed to the injuries to the O-line, it is pretty crazy to argue that they don't have a dramatic effect on the offense. Losing the entire right side of the line and playing with a wounded second-string right tackle IS going to affect your play-calling and player execution of those plays. Our team has relied on the strength of its O-line for awhile and that strength has become a weakness.

in 2005 we had a solid/healthy O-line and a Moss that was catching the ball...but i think you've touched on a good point, what constitutes conservative play-calling?

In my mind, play-calling becomes conservative when you know you are unlikely to get the first down, but you do it anyway to eat clock. While there is certainly a time and place for this strategy (end of game or when you are up by 3 possession at the start of 4th quarter) i think we start playing the clock game too early (not enough of a lead). We seem to be willing to accept (though clearly they want to get first downs) burning a min or two off the clock via a run, run, short pass play calling that often results in 3 and outs, and then relying on the D to hold yet again.

In 2005, our line was good enough to run for first downs- and thus could legititmarely expect to achieve/obtain first downs via the run- with our current patchwork line, this is not the case...

[firstdown]

Its funny when MB was playing people said that he was always dumping the ball off now when JC does this its conservative play calling.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Its funny when MB was playing people said that he was always dumping the ball off now when JC does this its conservative play calling.

And thats my new sig.

[over the mountain]

my definition of conservative play-calling (from what i saw yesterday):

throwing screens on 3rd and 13 with a one possession lead

rushing 4 and dropping 7 into a prevent shell with a 2 point lead

- i dont have a problem with conservative play-calling, i like coach gibbs approach of running the ball early and often, eating up the play-clock, and not turing the ball over and letting your D be the deciding factor in winning games but we just cant do that now with our O line injuries

[firstdown]

Edit, edit

[over the mountain]

hahaha firstdown are you catching feelings from last weeks post about fan behavior? lighten up buddy, were on the same team!!!

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Its funny when MB was playing people said that he was always dumping the ball off now when JC does this its conservative play calling.

The difference is, Brunell never even looked downfield until the game was all but lost, and he couldn't possibly be blamed for giving it away. Campbell takes shots downfield, and even on a few plays yesterday, you could see Campbell looking deep before checking down.

Brunell also had the benefit of a receiver that had a chip on his shoulder and a point to prove. Campbell is dealing with the same receiver, but he's become a headcase that forgot how to make plays.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Its funny when MB was playing people said that he was always dumping the ball off now when JC does this its conservative play calling.

We were not calling deep passes yesterday. Sanders even mentioned it in his interviews after the game. He said we went in with a conservative game plan.