Update: Saunders Signs Deal with Rams to be OC

[QBall]

Now the Rams can wait over two years before their offense can gell and understand what plays to run and how to score tds.

Think about it, who in the NFL has three f'ing years to wait? Gibbs worst move in my veiw was giving the offense to AL. He stopped calling plays and there went a piece of the Hall of Fame with it.....

[Drift Reality]

Originally Posted by QBall

Now the Rams can wait over two years before their offense can gell and understand what plays to run and how to score tds.

Think about it, who in the NFL has three f'ing years to wait? Gibbs worst move in my veiw was giving the offense to AL. He stopped calling plays and there went a piece of the Hall of Fame with it.....

I feel like I'm starting to become a Saunders apologist and I don't even think that much of him, but in my opinion, all this criticism is sort of ridiculous.

When he had his guy in there at QB I think we saw the potential of the offense to move up and down the field at will.

Would you idiots please be reasonable.

[QBall]

Originally Posted by Drift Reality

I feel like I'm starting to become a Saunders apologist and I don't even think that much of him, but in my opinion, all this criticism is sort of ridiculous.

When he had his guy in there at QB I think we saw the potential of the offense to move up and down the field at will.

Would you idiots please be reasonable.

Idiots?? Wow nice one!

[BDBohnzie]

Saunders being more comfortable with his guy Collins was able to open up the playbook at the end of the year and fully expose the Skins to what his offense can really do. I think it was a decision by both Gibbs and Saunders to scale back what Campbell was exposed to in gameplay, and ultimately that is why Saunders was let go. He did not fully trust Campbell's ability to let him run the plays that Collins did. Either that, or Campbell isn't as good as we're hoping he is.

Saunders has proven successful in the league. He won a Super Bowl as assistant head coach to [Dick Vermeil] in St. Louis, and had one of the best offenses in Kansas City. He'll find success again, perhaps as early as St. Louis this coming year.

[MTK]

Of course the offense was scaled back for JC, after all we're talking about a first year starter trying to get on track with a pretty deep playbook. I think it was Dick Vermeil that commented it was the right thing to do.

[BDBohnzie]

I'm not arguing that it wasn't the right thing to do, but in the comments of Cerrato and Snyder being disappointed in the offense, it comes down to Saunders not opening up the playbook earlier to allow Campbell more exposure, especially after doing so with Collins.

It's a definite Catch-22 on his part, and ultimately cost him his job with the Redskins.

[freddyg12]

Even w/a scaled back playbook, JC put up some big #s in some games. The tampa & dallas games come to mind. It wasn't the playbook that made us lose those games, JC was just going through some growing pains.

IMO, if you add a year of maturity to JC & another year of learning AS' offense, combined w/a healthy O line, 08 could've been a great breakout year. Also, not a knock on Gibbs, but some people work better if they have more control, & w/Gibbs gone, Al might've been free to run the O more his way. I wish we were getting the chance to see that. It really disappointed me to read that GW wanted to keep Al (according to JLC). that might've been the final straw w/the danny & vinny, who obviously didn't want to keep him.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by BDBohnzie

I'm not arguing that it wasn't the right thing to do, but in the comments of Cerrato and Snyder being disappointed in the offense, it comes down to Saunders not opening up the playbook earlier to allow Campbell more exposure, especially after doing so with Collins.

It's a definite Catch-22 on his part, and ultimately cost him his job with the Redskins.

Seems you're assuming that not opening up the playbook cost him his job. There could've been any no. of reasons they wanted to replace him. JLC said that when asked in camp how the players were adjusting to the system, Al responded that the problem wasn't the players.

Who knows exactly why they wanted to replace AS, but I think we have to at least be fair to him & realize that this O wasn't entirely his, it was a hybrid Gibbs/Saunders O & him not opening up the playbook might've been on direct orders from his boss, who in his second stint here was very (too) cautious.

Add to that, Saunders was teaching a young qb & the right side of the line was 2nd/3rd string quality most of the year, which was evident vs. the hawks.

[BDBohnzie]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Seems you're assuming that not opening up the playbook cost him his job. There could've been any no. of reasons they wanted to replace him. JLC said that when asked in camp how the players were adjusting to the system, Al responded that the problem wasn't the players.

Who knows exactly why they wanted to replace AS, but I think we have to at least be fair to him & realize that this O wasn't entirely his, it was a hybrid Gibbs/Saunders O & him not opening up the playbook might've been on direct orders from his boss, who in his second stint here was very (too) cautious.

Add to that, Saunders was teaching a young qb & the right side of the line was 2nd/3rd string quality most of the year, which was evident vs. the hawks.

It could very well be that Saunders was hamstrung by Gibbs. If that's the case (hindsight is always 20/20), perhaps Saunders should have stuck up more for Campbell (who supposedly wasn't the problem) before opening the offense up when Collins took over.

Snyder and Cerrato obviously see something we all don't see...take that as you will...I would have liked to see Saunders stick around for the long haul and watch Campbell run his offense to perfection. However, we won't and I wish Saunders luck in landing the Rams job and trying to turn that carnival sideshow of an offense back around.

[Paintrain]

With Bulger, Jackson & Holt and knowledge/experience in the system I think the Rams offense will be everything we hoped Saunders would have made it in DC.

Freedom to develop and call the gameplan (which he didn't have here) will make a tremendous difference with the Rams..

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by BDBohnzie

It could very well be that Saunders was hamstrung by Gibbs. If that's the case (hindsight is always 20/20), perhaps Saunders should have stuck up more for Campbell (who supposedly wasn't the problem) before opening the offense up when Collins took over.

Snyder and Cerrato obviously see something we all don't see...take that as you will...I would have liked to see Saunders stick around for the long haul and watch Campbell run his offense to perfection. However, we won't and I wish Saunders luck in landing the Rams job and trying to turn that carnival sideshow of an offense back around.

One thing that has always baffled me about the Collins period, I think a lot of people are assuming that Saunders "opened up the playbook" for him. Any proof or evidence of this?

The reason I pose the question is that it actually seems that they took more steps to protect Collins than they did JC. JC got hit in preseason when Heyer was playing & throughout the regular season when Heyer was in there, they still ran plays where Heyer was 1 on 1 & there was an empty backfield. As soon as Collins comes in, they keep a rb (sometimes 2) in to help Heyer & they even ran what looked like max protect w/a TE in a lot.

I know Collins isn't mobile, but why would you leave your young qb so vulnerable? It almost seemed that the O was more cautious on pass downs w/Collins, which on the surface seems to contradict the whole "open up the playbook" theory. Just a thought.

[hail_2_da_skins]

WHAT IF?

Al Saunders goes to St. Louis Rams and the Rams return to being the greatest show on turf? What does that say about the Washington Redskins and their offensive personnel? Does that mean that the Redskin players are not talented or smart enough to run Saunders offense?

[BDBohnzie]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

One thing that has always baffled me about the Collins period, I think a lot of people are assuming that Saunders "opened up the playbook" for him. Any proof or evidence of this?

The reason I pose the question is that it actually seems that they took more steps to protect Collins than they did JC. JC got hit in preseason when Heyer was playing & throughout the regular season when Heyer was in there, they still ran plays where Heyer was 1 on 1 & there was an empty backfield. As soon as Collins comes in, they keep a rb (sometimes 2) in to help Heyer & they even ran what looked like max protect w/a TE in a lot.

I know Collins isn't mobile, but why would you leave your young qb so vulnerable? It almost seemed that the O was more cautious on pass downs w/Collins, which on the surface seems to contradict the whole "open up the playbook" theory. Just a thought.

Could very well be, which is why I'm sitting here at my keyboard, instead of having my name on a door at Redskins Park

But it would be hard to believe that Saunders didn't use his comfort level with Collins to do something different than what he did with Campbell. Saunders brought Collins in to help the transition to his offense go a lot smoother. Why wouldn't he have let Collins loose, knowing that he knows the system better than any QB in the league today?

[BDBohnzie]

Originally Posted by hail_2_da_skins

WHAT IF?

Al Saunders goes to St. Louis Rams and the Rams return to being the greatest show on turf? What does that say about the Washington Redskins and their offensive personnel? Does that mean that the Redskin players are not talented or smart enough to run Saunders offense?

Nope. Just means that Gibbs had a big influence on how Saunders called his game...

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by IggyG

Saunders is a way overrated anyhow.

Care to back up your opinion?

AS is one of the top O coordinators in the league. His history proves it. He never really was allowed to "do what he does" here b/c of Gibbs. However w/ that being said our offense was coming along especially w/ Collins in there.

Anyhow, I'd just wanted to hear some reasons why a longtime, top 5 offensive coach year in and year out is overrated.

It's just funny how as soon as a redskin coach or player is out the door they get bashed immediately (AS was bashed while he was here too i guess).