How to Fix Social Security

Monkeydad · 03-26-2008, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Well just because it's privatized doesn't mean you can't set a minimum mandatory contribution as part of the program.

Privatization refers mainly to private investment firms offering the investment options, not simply that everyone is responsible for their own retirement account.

It should simply be the current FICA tax %, at least to start.

We wouldn't be missing any money since it was being stolen anyways and it's probably a decent % to ensure a good retirement.

If anyone wants to contribute extra, that is their choice.

onlydarksets · 03-26-2008, 08:49 AM

I know. I was talking about ownership in the sense of investing, not contributing.

Monkeydad · 03-26-2008, 09:25 AM

Privatize.

I wrote a 16-page paper on Privatizing SS in college. It was a good idea THEN and still is.

Congress (specifically the one party that created it) was incredibly selfish for shooting this down when President Bush proposed it. They don't want their program to look like a failure, even though it clearly is. So, instead of being responsible, they decided to block any change to their failed program for political reasons, in the process forfeiting any chance for a retirement for the current generation of workers and also our children.

I received my SS statement in the mail last week, the one they mail you annually to show you what your benefit will be upon retirement. I noticed that it stated that if I work until 67, I can receive full benefits. That used to say age 65. I expect the retirement age to keep going up and should be around 72-75 by the time I retire, not that any benefits will be there for be.

Anyone with common sense can see that SS in its current state CAN not work. With the retirements of the Baby Boomer generation, there will be more people withdrawing funds than working to provide them. The ratio used to be 15:1 (workers:retirees). Now the ratio is estimated to be about 2:1 and still falling.

There never was a Social Security Trust Fund as claimed. The money has always been tapped into and shifted to the general fund for spending on random bills.

The ability for people to save for their own retirements is the only workable solution for future generations. Being able to have the option to take the insane SS tax amount and investing as we wish is just smart. You don't need to have any knowledge in the stock market, because even playing it safely has ALWAYS yielded a 10% return historically.

Those who choose to gamble with the SS will just have to take what (if anything) they are able to get. There will need to be a transition period so that workers now nearing retirement can still get the SS funds they were stupidly promised by an irresponsible government, but afterwards, everyone should be required to invest for their own retirements.

The country of Chile has the best plan and example of how successful a full privatization can be.
EMPOWERING WORKERS: THE PRIVATIZATION OF SOCIAL SECURITY IN CHILE

SmootSmack · 03-26-2008, 09:58 AM

Well I'm certainly learning a lot, and I hope others are too. I tend to lean toward the "allow people to take a portion of the tax and invest it into a private account" school of thought.

Monkeydad · 03-26-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well I'm certainly learning a lot, and I hope others are too. I tend to lean toward the "allow people to take a portion of the tax and invest it into a private account" school of thought.

The free market is ALWAYS the best option for the whole economy and for the individuals.

The absolute WORST way, LEAST efficient and most likely to FAIL way to spend a dollar is to hand it over to the bureaucratic mess of the Government. They have no discretion when spending billions of dollars they have not earned, but you and I will be careful with every dollar we've worked for and will make a more responsible choice with it.

onlydarksets · 03-26-2008, 10:19 AM

I think I agree with partial privatization. My concern is with privatizing the entire thing, and then expecting people who have never taken any interest in planning for retirement to invest wisely. Partial privatization gives at least a small fallback cushion.

firstdown · 03-26-2008, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onlydarksets

I think I agree with partial privatization. My concern is with privatizing the entire thing, and then expecting people who have never taken any interest in planning for retirement to invest wisely. Partial privatization gives at least a small fallback cushion.

Well if the goverment does privatize SS it would have to be manditory that each person invest a % of their payroll each month. I would also not have a problem if the Goverment restricted how the money was invested to some point. Another words I could not take all the money and invest it into risky stocks I would have to be deversified in my portfolio.

Hog1 · 03-26-2008, 10:39 AM

Check "Revelations". You won't be needing it

Monkeydad · 03-26-2008, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog1

Check "Revelations". You won't be needing it

Great answer!

But, He'll be coming like a thief in the night, when we are not expecting.

Much like the Government.

70Chip · 03-27-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog1

Check "Revelations". You won't be needing it

It's "Revelation", not "Revelations". Sorry, but this is one of my pet peeves.

onlydarksets · 03-26-2008, 12:24 PM

Opting Out in Texas: Three Counties Leave the... [Mackinac Center for Public Policy]

I have no problem with that, because it guarantees the return. However, that's not free market - it's just better management of funds (presumably there is some level of oversight, whereas now there is virtually none). Individual investors still cannot choose a riskier or safer retirement strategy.

I'd be interested to hear the Schneed/Buster take on this.

That Guy · 03-27-2008, 06:19 AM

get rid of it. teach people about investing, employer matching, and roth IRAs.

I don't want to pay social security because I can get a far better return then some crap annuity by myself and I could really use that money for better things.

annuities just aren't a good deal, and that's how most pension plans are run... investment accounts (401k's/IRA's/Roth IRA's, etc) give a much better return, and more control (though safe(r) funds exist for those not knowledgeable in investing but interested in getting more than the .07% a bank gives or the 5-6% on a bank's CD).

Monkeydad · 03-27-2008, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Guy

get rid of it. teach people about investing, employer matching, and roth IRAs.

I don't want to pay social security because I can get a far better return then some crap annuity by myself and I could really use that money for better things.

BINGO!

Now if only Congress could understand such a SIMPLE truth, we'd be far better off.

jsarno · 03-27-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

BINGO!

Now if only Congress could understand such a SIMPLE truth, we'd be far better off.

People can't have it both ways. Congress is assuming we are too stupid to figure this out on our own...but why would they think otherwise when we have SOOOO many programs to help aid the ignorant, or lazy?

onlydarksets · 03-27-2008, 11:56 AM

That's beyond privatization. What do you do about the strains on the welfare system for those who don't invest anything?

View Poll Results: How Would You Fix Social Security?
Raise Tax	0	0%
Cut Benefits	1	4.17%
Privatize	12	50.00%
Other (explain)	11	45.83%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

03-26-2008, 08:49 AM	#2
onlydarksets Playmaker Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: all up in your business Posts: 2,693	Re: How to Fix Social Security I know. I was talking about ownership in the sense of investing, not contributing. __________________ Stop reading my signature.

03-26-2008, 09:25 AM	#3
Monkeydad Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: PA Age: 47 Posts: 17,460	Re: How to Fix Social Security Privatize. I wrote a 16-page paper on Privatizing SS in college. It was a good idea THEN and still is. Congress (specifically the one party that created it) was incredibly selfish for shooting this down when President Bush proposed it. They don't want their program to look like a failure, even though it clearly is. So, instead of being responsible, they decided to block any change to their failed program for political reasons, in the process forfeiting any chance for a retirement for the current generation of workers and also our children. I received my SS statement in the mail last week, the one they mail you annually to show you what your benefit will be upon retirement. I noticed that it stated that if I work until 67, I can receive full benefits. That used to say age 65. I expect the retirement age to keep going up and should be around 72-75 by the time I retire, not that any benefits will be there for be. Anyone with common sense can see that SS in its current state CAN not work. With the retirements of the Baby Boomer generation, there will be more people withdrawing funds than working to provide them. The ratio used to be 15:1 (workers:retirees). Now the ratio is estimated to be about 2:1 and still falling. There never was a Social Security Trust Fund as claimed. The money has always been tapped into and shifted to the general fund for spending on random bills. The ability for people to save for their own retirements is the only workable solution for future generations. Being able to have the option to take the insane SS tax amount and investing as we wish is just smart. You don't need to have any knowledge in the stock market, because even playing it safely has ALWAYS yielded a 10% return historically. Those who choose to gamble with the SS will just have to take what (if anything) they are able to get. There will need to be a transition period so that workers now nearing retirement can still get the SS funds they were stupidly promised by an irresponsible government, but afterwards, everyone should be required to invest for their own retirements. The country of Chile has the best plan and example of how successful a full privatization can be. EMPOWERING WORKERS: THE PRIVATIZATION OF SOCIAL SECURITY IN CHILE

03-26-2008, 09:58 AM	#4
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Re: How to Fix Social Security Well I'm certainly learning a lot, and I hope others are too. I tend to lean toward the "allow people to take a portion of the tax and invest it into a private account" school of thought. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

03-26-2008, 10:19 AM	#6
onlydarksets Playmaker Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: all up in your business Posts: 2,693	Re: How to Fix Social Security I think I agree with partial privatization. My concern is with privatizing the entire thing, and then expecting people who have never taken any interest in planning for retirement to invest wisely. Partial privatization gives at least a small fallback cushion. __________________ Stop reading my signature.

03-26-2008, 10:39 AM	#8
Hog1 Quietly Dominating the East Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 10,675	Re: How to Fix Social Security Check "Revelations". You won't be needing it __________________ Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios thankyou Joe....... *“God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.” – Joe Gibbs*

03-26-2008, 12:24 PM	#11
onlydarksets Playmaker Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: all up in your business Posts: 2,693	Re: How to Fix Social Security Opting Out in Texas: Three Counties Leave the... [Mackinac Center for Public Policy] I have no problem with that, because it guarantees the return. However, that's not free market - it's just better management of funds (presumably there is some level of oversight, whereas now there is virtually none). Individual investors still cannot choose a riskier or safer retirement strategy. I'd be interested to hear the Schneed/Buster take on this. __________________ Stop reading my signature.

03-27-2008, 06:19 AM	#12
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 43 Posts: 17,620	Re: How to Fix Social Security get rid of it. teach people about investing, employer matching, and roth IRAs. I don't want to pay social security because I can get a far better return then some crap annuity by myself and I could really use that money for better things. annuities just aren't a good deal, and that's how most pension plans are run... investment accounts (401k's/IRA's/Roth IRA's, etc) give a much better return, and more control (though safe(r) funds exist for those not knowledgeable in investing but interested in getting more than the .07% a bank gives or the 5-6% on a bank's CD).

03-27-2008, 11:56 AM	#15
onlydarksets Playmaker Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: all up in your business Posts: 2,693	Re: How to Fix Social Security That's beyond privatization. What do you do about the strains on the welfare system for those who don't invest anything? __________________ Stop reading my signature.

How to Fix Social Security

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