BitterGate

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by saden1

So we try to prevent the future? Action could lead to just as much danger as inaction. Or as they say "blowback" in CIA speak.

Well "blowback" is more about covert action isn't it. I'm not saying go blow up everything. I just don't think "Well I never voted for the war in the first place" is the right answer now

[saden1]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well "blowback" is more about covert action isn't it. I'm not saying go blow up everything. I just don't think "Well I never voted for the war in the first place" is the right answer now

Sigh, Blowback is not limited to covert action. It's any action that has negative consequence on Americans and if that's not enough then I hope Abu-Ghraib, Guantanamo, and Secret Prisons quench your thirst.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by saden1

Sigh, Blowback is not limited to covert action. It's any action that has negative consequence on Americans and if that's not enough then I hope Abu-Ghraib, Guantanamo, and Secret Prisons quench your thirst.

Well excuse me then, I thought it referred specifically to covert action. Not sure what the "sigh" was for there

What's the term for inaction that has negative consequences? That's more of a rhetorical question. I don't honestly care what the answer is. This thread had me pretty bitter from the start.

[KLHJ2]

When it comes to providing the troops to support UN operations, we are the UN. I disagreed with going, but I did not disagree with staying there as long as we have. Now we need to shift focus and get out of there. It's time to take the training wheels off of the Iraqi government. If we start the redeployment process and the downsizing of troops now it could still take a couple if not a few more years to completely pull out of there. The sad thing is that I do not see us ever pulling out completely. Iraq is nothing more than a strategic military foothold to the middle east. It doesn't matter who we elect in my opinion, the sad truth that I just mentioned will be the truth for any candidate. I suggest picking your candidate based on the rest of their policies and not Iraq.

[djnemo65]

This week was the bloodiest in Iraq this year, the majority of Iraqis feel that the American presence is worsening the security situation, and Colin Powell became the latest person to point out that our troop levels are unsustainable. So what's the plan? What does McCain understand that I don't? What is the endgame and what is McCain going to do to accomplish it? It's easy to say packing up and going home is bad but unless things change (and they haven't in five years, come on, not really) where is the honor in remaining?

And Obama's comments were stupid. But at least he knows the difference between Shiite and Sunni.

[KLHJ2]

I believe that the correct sentiment is that they wanted us there and now they want us gone. How quickly desires change once the job is done. In other words we have accomplished what they wanted us to. Sadam is dead and his regime is over. Only their own civil war can repair the unity and forge their own nation. We are nothing less than arrogant than to believe that we can do it for them.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by angryssg

I believe that the correct sentiment is that they wanted us there and now they want us gone. How quickly desires change once the job is done. In other words we have accomplished what they wanted us to. Sadam is dead and his regime is over. Only their own civil war can repair the unity and forge their own nation. We are nothing less than arrogant than to believe that we can do it for them.

great post. and i agree witrh most of it

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by dmek25

great post. and i agree witrh most of it

Thanks, its about time we agreed on something. Out of curiosity, what did you not agree with? I would like to feed off of that so that we can get back to square 1. JK

[SmootSmack]

saden, are you upset that there is a war going on or that the war is happening in Iraq? Because I know a lot of people say "bring our troops home" and then many of those same people say "why aren't we dedicating 100% of our resources to fighting in Afghanistan/Pakistan where the real enemy is." So do they want to bring the troops home, or just move them somewhere else?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

saden, are you upset that there is a war going on or that the war is happening in Iraq? Because I know a lot of people say "bring our troops home" and then many of those same people say "why aren't we dedicating 100% of our resources to fighting in Afghanistan/Pakistan where the real enemy is." So do they want to bring the troops home, or just move them somewhere else?

I am upset about a lot of things, our foreign policy, the fact that we have a large presence in so many places, that our defense budget is enormous and that the defense supplemental bill is disgustingly huge, that we are in Iraq even though we can't "fix" it, that we are not in a position to chastise China for their disregard for human right.

I want most of the troops back home (including those in Germany, Japan, Korea, etc) and for us to go after terrorist wherever they might be (Afghanistan) intelligently. I want the draft back so chickenhawks get called up to serve.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by saden1

I am upset about a lot of things, our foreign policy, the fact that we have a large presence in so many places, that our defense budget is enormous and that the defense supplemental bill is disgustingly huge, that we are in Iraq even though we can't "fix" it, that we are not in a position to chastise China for their disregard for human right.

I want most of the troops back home (including those in Germany, Japan, Korea, etc) and for us to go after terrorist wherever they might be (Afghanistan) intelligently. I want the draft back so chickenhawks get called up to serve.

yeah, yeah, yeah...but are you bitter?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

yeah, yeah, yeah...but are you bitter?

Without question...my tax money is being wasted without my consent!

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by saden1

Without question...my tax money is being wasted without my consent!

But on the flip side, a lot of your tax money, perhaps most of it, is being put to good use?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by saden1

I am upset about a lot of things, our foreign policy, the fact that we have a large presence in so many places, that our defense budget is enormous and that the defense supplemental bill is disgustingly huge, that we are in Iraq even though we can't "fix" it, that we are not in a position to chastise China for their disregard for human right.

I want most of the troops back home (including those in Germany, Japan, Korea, etc) and for us to go after terrorist wherever they might be (Afghanistan) intelligently. I want the draft back so chickenhawks get called up to serve.

But more than anything you're upset that you went to the playoff game against the Seahawks, and we lost. Aren't you?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

But more than anything you're upset that you went to the playoff game against the Seahawks, and we lost. Aren't you?

Absolutely...I'm double bitter cause it happened in 05 and 07. Co-worker came over today gloating about the fact that Skins are going to be coming to Seattle next season and that we're going to get our asses handed to us yet again...I'm definitely bitter about losing to the Seahawks time after time.