Don't you think we are overreacting just a bit??

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Was the defense really the problem though?

They tightened up in the 2nd half (42 yard rushing allowed vs. 74 in the first half) and kept us in the game and only allowed 1 TD. If we had any hint of an offense that was a very winnable game.

Yes the D needs some improvement, but I'm not sure why you are so focused on them vs. the offense, which needs a vast improvement.

I am old school, defense wins championships was the name I tried to make as my TWP name. I respect teams that have great defenses and I really appreaciate seeing a good defense play. I played LB and safety in school and I know what to look for and can tell by a few drives if any team has a sound defense or not. We do not. Our team will hang in there and make a game of it on a given week, but we will also get blow out a game or two this year. We are not a a caliber of team that will keep every game close on our defense alone. We have to click on all cylinders to win games this year or be playing a weak team . That makes it difficult and frustrating. Especially since we had a good defense not to long ago.

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Was the defense really the problem though?

They tightened up in the 2nd half (42 yard rushing allowed vs. 74 in the first half) and kept us in the game and only allowed 1 TD. If we had any hint of an offense that was a very winnable game.

Yes the D needs some improvement, but I'm not sure why you are so focused on them vs. the offense, which needs a vast improvement.

the defense def tightened up the 2nd half,but 74 and 42 add up to 116,Jacobs had that by himself,Giants actually had 154 yrds rushing,which is not good.Plus we were getting steamrolled that first half,IMO,the giants let us off easily,especially on their 2nd and 3rd drive,I think they could have easily picked up their first downs if they would have went for them instead of settling for fg's,they had a 4th n 2 and a 4th n 4,the way our def was playing,they should have went for it,on their 4th drive they had 4th n 5,they probably should have went for that too.The worst drive the giants had ended at the 29 yrd line,
first drive,11 plays 84 yrds
2nd,9 plays 45 yrds
3rd 11 plays 62 yrds
4th 11 plays 57 yrds
bottom line,we couldnt stop them,we were extremely lucky they settled for 16 points,if it would have been last yrs Patriots with their mentality,it would have been 28 points,and the bad thing is,your right about one thing,the offense was worse than the defense

[GoSkins!]

Are we over-reacting

Yes

• To say that the QB needs to go and that Zorn should be replaced is definitely over-reacting.

No

• To say that we have looked flat for three games and that the primary responsibility of that lies on the coach is a reasonable reaction.
• To say Campbell shouldn't be staring down his receivers is reasonable.
• To say that 4 completions on third down that all fall short of a first down is unacceptable is a valid opinion.
• To say that clock management was terrible even for a high school coach and QB is just a factual observation.

For me, personally, I believe that since Snyder picked a QB coach with no real HC experience, new offensive system, and a young QB, we have to have a long leash. I'll give Zorn all year as long as I see some basic progress being made and see him stand strong under adversity. What I have had a hard time stomaching is him calling out guys in public and not taking responsibility himself. Now that he has finally done that (in his Friday press conference and player meetings), I feel much more confident that he will adjust to the players some, work on himself, and still hold guys to a high standard. Owning up is rule number one for being a true leader.
Glad to see he finally did it...

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GoSkins!

The answer is yes and no.
Are we over-reacting?
Yes - To say that the QB needs to go and that Zorn should be replaced is definitely over-reacting.
No - To say that we have looked flat for three games and that the primary responsibility of that lies on the coach is a reasonable reaction.
To say Campbell shouldn't be staring down his receivers is reasonable. To say that 4 completions on third down that all fall short of a first down is unacceptable is a valid opinion. To say that clock management was terrible even for a high school coach and QB is just a factual observation.

For me, personally, I believe that since Snyder picked a QB coach with no real HC experience, new offensive system, and a young QB, we have to have a long leash. I'll give Zorn all year as long as I see some basic progress being made and see him stand strong under adversity. What I have had a hard time stomaching is him calling out guys in public and not taking responsibility himself. Now that he has finally done that (in his Friday press conference and player meetings), I feel much more confident that he will adjust to the players some, work on himself, and still hold guys to a high standard. Owning up is rule number one for being a true leader.
Glad to see he finally did it...

Finally? He's been pretty candid about shouldering blame and what his responsibilities are as head coach from day one.

[GoSkins!]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Finally? He's been pretty candid about shouldering blame and what his responsibilities are as head coach from day one.

I went back and listened to a number of interviews with Zorn and I still disagree. Watching for the last few months and definitely over the last few games, he has put much of the blame for failures squarely on players. Also, look at the interview that Sonny did with him in the locker room. Do you really think he took responsibility for not getting Cooley the ball and for not managing the clock better?

I'll admit that maybe I'm just used to hearing Gibbs shoulder the blame in a different way. Zorn's critiques just have struck a bad chord with me lately.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I am not amazed. After spending an entire off season reading post here on TWP of a certain group of very overly optimistic fans saying we were a top team in the NFC east, I was expecting this to happen. I was expecting this kind of reaction from fans. These are the same fans that cried foul when the 'so called' professional prognosticators had us coming in last or next to last in the NFC east this season.

What has me frustrated is I did not like some of the moves that were made this off season and I expected the team to regress in the short term future. But I at the same time I look for some consistent level of play and discipline in the fundamentals. What I saw in the preseason and game 1 is we regressed in this measure.
I just want to see our team, especially on defense, play well. Even if we do not win. We are going to beat lesser teams, but i want to see us play to a certain standard, even if we lose to a better team.
We are currently not doing that and that is what has me frustrated. To read post of people saying our defense played well in game 1 frustrates me. To my eye of what is a good defense, our defense did not play well and truthfully is not very good.
When our defense gives up 5.1 yds a carry, we will not win many games or make the playoffs. Plain and simple. That was not good defense regardless of the score.
This was an above average playoff team last year. We are currently not as good as were last year, I think I can be disappointed and frustrated in the level of play.

Good post.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I am not amazed. After spending an entire off season reading post here on TWP of a certain group of very overly optimistic fans saying we were a top team in the NFC east, I was expecting this to happen. I was expecting this kind of reaction from fans. These are the same fans that cried foul when the 'so called' professional prognosticators had us coming in last or next to last in the NFC east this season.

Yeah im alil amazed at some people calling for zorn's head or wanting collins or colt to start; but i was alil amazed at people thinking we were gonna win 10-12 games this year too. I think we have to careful to not lump people venting frustration at JC's lack of progression (like me unfortunately) as a big group who wants JC out of there.

I think if you polled people, the majority would say they want JC to start the rest of the year no matter what but are starting to doubt JC has what it takes to go from a good qb to a great one.

Point is (like in the media) the small percent of extreme views get the majority of the discussion. When I say "JC is good, i hope he can turn it up this year and be great" no one responds and why should they; but if someone posts "JC is a stupid POS and colt should start" they get a million responses telling them why they're wrong. Just human nature but truth be told I think most skins fans are willing to wait and watch this year; read the posts in this thread most people agree with what matty is saying.

so in short i dont think there is a mass fan crisis on our hands, just a few loud spoken dissenters.

go skins!!!!

[WaldSkins]

At least we didn't hear the "they fought their guts out speech".

[WaldSkins]

The biggest problems i got from this game was:

* I thought that we should have been blitzing a lot more.
* JC staring down his receivers and throwing to short on third downs.
* Poor clock management.
* Running on first and long, second and long, and throwing only on third and long early in the game.


All these can be fixed with some more game time for this team and its rookie head coach. I think a lot of people are just so upset because they know how hard our first five games are and how we need to start out on a good start.

[The Goat]

I think Matty is right on about the overreaction we've seen both among us fans and in the media. Probably what pisses me off most about the cries of a falling sky and whatnot is how the debate/discussion over the fundamentals gets relegated. I come to this forum hoping to learn more about all aspects of professional football and since the loss Thursday there hasn't been much serious analysis about how we're running the WCO, what could work better, etc. Obviously the offense will have to make some adjustments to have success. I'm not hearing much for ideas around here (or elsewhere).

[coggs]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I think Matty is right on about the overreaction we've seen both among us fans and in the media.

I think that is just the nature of the die-hard fan. We have so much passion that we take it harder when our team(s) perform poorly. $h!t, some of you probably remember my old signature and was bashing the Giants up until they beat Tampa Bay in the first round of the play-offs. My brother who is a steelers fan laughs at me because he thinks I am a putz because the day after the Super Bowl I was saying that despite the run, I wasn't convinced that Eli had actually turned the corner as a QB and didn't just happen to get hot at the right time.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Matty:

Indeed some folks have over-reacted to a rather poor opening game by the Skins. I might suggest that many of those over-reacting folks are the same ones who were projecting the Skins as the NFC East Champs with a really good shot at the Super Bowl this year. That was - and is - an unrealistic expectation. So, when they played the way they did, those folks panic.

The team's play will have to improve as the season goes along; it's just not possible for them to continue to make those kinds of mistakes (on the field and on the sidelines) week after week.

But in the cold light of day, the Redksins of 2008 have precisely the same weaknesses than they had in 2007.


1. The same 3 wide recievers are out there most of the time and they are a mediocre bunch. They have been for the last three seasons and there is no reason to expect them to "blossom" at this stage of their careers.

2. Jason Campbell still stares down his recievers far too often.

3. Defensive line cannot stop the run effectively.


You would like to think that at least one of these weaknesses would be significantly better in 08 than it was in 07. No indication yet. Time will tell. Patience is called for...

[mooby]

Don't expect us to roll over the Saints, they did a great job shoring up their d this offseason with Jonathan Vilma and Sedrick Ellis.

We've got plenty of work to do, obviously, but I'm not jumping ship just yet. This probably has more to do with the fact that I missed the game because I had to work.

I still hold out hope that Zorn will identify all the mistakes made in the game, including his, and correct them this week in practice. From what I've seen most of the mistakes we made were very basic fundamental ones so they shouldn't be too hard to fix.

[skinsfan69]

I think people just need to realize that man for man we just don't match up with the top teams in the NFL. We lack true playmakers on both sides of the ball and we are not a strong team in the trenches. When you add on that fact that our front office is below average and we've got a rookie head coach that looks to be a little in over his head you've got a 4-6 win team. Sometimes people just need to face the facts. I know it sucks cause we homers tend to think our guys are better then they really are. I think that's just the case, not only around here but all over town. Once people realize it then maybe we won't see all the overreacting.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I think people just need to realize that man for man we just don't match up with the top teams in the NFL. We lack true playmakers on both sides of the ball and we are not a strong team in the trenches. When you add on that fact that our front office is below average and we've got a rookie head coach that looks to be a little in over his head you've got a 4-6 win team. Sometimes people just need to face the facts. I know it sucks cause we homers tend to think our guys are better then they really are. I think that's just the case, not only around here but all over town. Once people realize it then maybe we won't see all the overreacting.

Well, now you are making the case for an overreaction with statements like these. I agree we're not strong in the trenches, but judging Zorn and Cerrato as below average and in over his head after one game is premature. You don't have enough evidence yet to judge Cerrato's first draft class which he was solely in charge of. And one game isn't enough time to tell you whether Zorn can hold a team together through crisis and teach his players how to improve.

I do think we'll end up with a top 10 pick in the draft this year, but to rag on Zorn and Vinny at this point is premature. You just can't expect this team to be very good after such a big transition.

Here's the ultimate sniff test: how in the world do you go from Joe Gibbs to Jim Zorn and get better right away? If you expected Zorn to be better off the bat than Joe Gibbs was in his 4th season back, then you either drastically underestimate what a change in scheme does to a team or you think Joe Gibbs 2.0 was a terrible coach (in which case you're a moron).

The Zorn hire marked a new era. It meant we have to spend a year going through a tough learning period in hopes of taking steps forward in 2009, taking us further than where we were in 2007.