The Official Presidential Debate Thread (Round 2)

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by That Guy

it's probably obama's to lose... his margin is decent, but there are some times polls under-represent republicans. I assumed obama would have a stronger showing here than mccain would, and it sounds like that's about right. mccain suggesting 300bill$ for paying off other people's bad decisions seems utterly stupid to me.

I missed the debate, but it doesn't really matter, since i've already voted.

This was, to me, the far most important thing to come out of this debate. The idea of government buying up mortgages is insane. If the McCain camp is banking on that "big idea" to garner support, they're screwed.

[Hog1]

I was reticent about posting this, but what the hell. It is Youtube, so take from it what you will.
I found it interesting

YouTube - BTW I'm Voting For Mccain / Palin

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Hog1

I was reticent about posting this, but what the hell. It is Youtube, so take from it what you will.
I found it interesting

YouTube - BTW I'm Voting For Mccain / Palin

LOL...he lost me at brain washing segment...he should have been at the Republican convention, they certainly needed him for diversity.

I must say though he was entertaining to watch....he certainly thinks outside the box though it's a box inside another box.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

I watched the entire debate and thought it was close but that McCain came out on top. To me, what won it for McCain was he kept coming back to experience, which he has and Obama does not. There's no real spin to that it's a fact and it's his one advantage. I liked how he brought up the fact that Obama has not introduced a single piece of legislation aimed at lowering taxes. I just didn't think Obama responded as well this time. And although I don't like McCain's healthcare plan, I thought he did a good job of explaining it in layman's terms. Obama has the far better plan but I don't think he explained it as well.

I guess you got what you wanted out of the debate, it's human nature. Unfortunately you're in the minority.

Obama has not introduced a single piece of legislation aimed at lowering taxes eh? What tax would like him to reduce?

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by saden1

I guess you got what you wanted out of the debate, it's human nature. Unfortunately you're in the minority.

Obama has not introduced a single piece of legislation aimed at lowering taxes eh? What tax would like him to reduce?

Not really fortunate or unfortunate really. I do lean towards McCain, but I still consider myself undecided. There were pros and cons to both last night and I thought McCain did well. We'll see how the next one goes.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

This was, to me, the far most important thing to come out of this debate. The idea of government buying up mortgages is insane. If the McCain camp is banking on that "big idea" to garner support, they're screwed.

What's the better solution? Allow Wall Street to totally implode and watch as we enter the Greatest Depression?

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by saden1

LOL...he lost me at brain washing segment...he should have been at the Republican convention, they certainly needed him for diversity.

I must say though he was entertaining to watch....he certainly thinks outside the box though it's a box inside another box.

Ergo,
take from it what you will......

[firstdown]

I watched some of the debate but I'm decided and they had the Skins on NFL replay. Even though Obama seems to have the lead its going to be a very tough election. I perfer McCain over Obama but I really don't like either one of them. My biggest issue the past couple of years has been taxes as it seems as a small business owner I pay and pay and pay. Then my CPA (I have very good CPA) does my taxes and I still owe more money. Obama's plan says a small business making under $250,000 will not see a tax increase but I think there are allot more people hit by this then what we hear. So if my business makes over $250,000 and I after paying all of my bills, employee's, etc... I end up bringing home $65,000 I'm getting a tax increase. Most small business owners I know gross more than $250,000 but bring home much less.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I watched some of the debate but I'm decided and they had the Skins on NFL replay. Even though Obama seems to have the lead its going to be a very tough election. I perfer McCain over Obama but I really don't like either one of them. My biggest issue the past couple of years has been taxes as it seems as a small business owner I pay and pay and pay. Then my CPA (I have very good CPA) does my taxes and I still owe more money. Obama's plan says a small business making under $250,000 will not see a tax increase but I think there are allot more people hit by this then what we hear. So if my business makes over $250,000 and I after paying all of my bills, employee's, etc... I end up bringing home $65,000 I'm getting a tax increase. Most small business owners I know gross more than $250,000 but bring home much less.

If you have a Small (full time) business grossing less than 250k, your living on the street already. After expenses and tax's most business's won't have much left over.
If we are talking about personal income, over 250k. In OshKosh, that's probably pretty good loot. Not so in NYC, DC, either coast and much in between.
How does Barrack Hussein thinks that's fair, I wonder? He talks a lot about it. It seems much more fair if you are not in those groups, I imagine. These groups are already paying a whole lot more income tax than I am. Interesting concept of fairness Barrack has....
Actually, when you think about it, he's just a modern day Robin Hood? Steal from the rich and give to the poor?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Hog1

If you have a Small (full time) business grossing less than 250k, your living on the street already. After expenses and tax's most business's won't have much left over.
If we are talking about personal income, over 250k. In OshKosh, that's probably pretty good loot. Not so in NYC, DC, either coast and much in between.
How does Barrack Hussein thinks that's fair, I wonder? He talks a lot about it. It seems much more fair if you are not in those groups, I imagine. These groups are already paying a whole lot more income tax than I am. Interesting concept of fairness Barrack has....
Actually, when you think about it, he's just a modern day Robin Hood? Steal from the rich and give to the poor?

Well in my area if you do not have hugh over head to run the business 250k could mean some nice income. If its a business with alottmore over head then your right it could mean your making close to nothing. I know some new business owners where the business grosses over $300,000 but with all their overhead as a new business are just getting by. They will be fine after they pay off some of their equipment and keep growing but from what I read that will put them in a higher tax bracket under Obamas plan even though they are just getting by. His own words is any small business making over $250,000 will pay higher taxes. He does not say if the owner is making over 250k they will pay higher taxes. When he says this 250k number people think he is talking about the bring home pay of the owner which is incorrect.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

What's the better solution? Allow Wall Street to totally implode and watch as we enter the Greatest Depression?

Sorry, I don't personally believe that the government's role is to act as a mortgage lender. And... screw Wall Street. And Main Street. If you choose to *risk* your company's assets in shady, fundamentally poor investments and it comes back to bite you in the ass, that's on you. If you choose to *risk* your financial well being and purchase a home you cannot afford, that's on you. Everybody loves free/cheap money/assets but nobody wants to be responsible for their piss poor decision making. My own view is, let 'em fail, there will be a vacuum formed and new business will rush in to fill it. It may take time but I truly believe that would be the best in the long term. The way we're currently going, no one is going to learn ANYTHING from this mess. Everyone who screwed up and put us in this situation is going to get bailed out at the expense of everyone who was responsible. That's fucked up.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Sorry, I don't personally believe that the government's role is to act as a mortgage lender. And... screw Wall Street. And Main Street. If you choose to *risk* your company's assets in shady, fundamentally poor investments and it comes back to bite you in the ass, that's on you. If you choose to *risk* your financial well being and purchase a home you cannot afford, that's on you. Everybody loves free/cheap money/assets but nobody wants to be responsible for their piss poor decision making. My own view is, let 'em fail, there will be a vacuum formed and new business will rush in to fill it. It may take time but I truly believe that would be the best in the long term. The way we're currently going, no one is going to learn ANYTHING from this mess. Everyone who screwed up and put us in this situation is going to get bailed out at the expense of everyone who was responsible. That's fucked up.

Just making a point that what used to be sound conservative investments are no longer that, like Fannie/Freddie & Mortgage Backed Securities.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by redsk1

Just making a point that what used to be sound conservative investments are no longer that, like Fannie/Freddie & Mortgage Backed Securities.

Agreed, and the reason they are no longer sound is because the principles involved decided to change their business practices in favor of short sightedness.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Agreed, and the reason they are no longer sound is because the principles involved decided to change their business practices in favor of short sightedness.

And political correctness. Or more pointedly...they bought votes.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Agreed, and the reason they are no longer sound is because the principles involved decided to change their business practices in favor of short sightedness.

Fred & Fan had to pick up this bad papper because congress got involved with how banks gave out loans which is the biggest part of this entire mess. If congress kept their nose out of lending and banks kept up their conservative approach knowing they where stuck with any bad papper then they would have done so. This just goes back to goverment screws up everything they touch but heck lets give them more power. Why not let them screw up health care even worse or keep screwing up the school system, SS, etc.. because they do such a fine job. Funny thing is the two guys running for office both had a hand in these poor decisions. Yes both McCain & Obama are as guilty as anyone in this mess. Now we get to vote for them to fix the mess that they helped create to start with and you know what we will get. More goverment and goverment programs that over spend and are poorly run.