Your thoughts "IF" Shanahan were to replace Zorn in 2010

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Of course, i will root for the skins no matter whos coach... well, that is unless Danny decides to make himself Owner/GM/HC. I don't think I could handle that. Anyway, Shanahans been discussed, as have Cowher, Gruden, and Holmgren. Unless Zorn wins multiple playoff games, I honestly doubt Snyder will be able to resist the urge to pursue atleast one of those guys. So, with that in mind, i guess i might as well get used to the idea. With that in mind, here are my choices for HC in 2010, ranked in order from most desireable to least desireable.

1. Jim Zorn

Where's the rest of your list? Considering you thought Zorn was a poor hire and couldn't wait for next off-season there must be a longer list, no?

http://www.thewarpath.net/518653-post33.html

Zorn inherited a team with a very strong running game from Joe Gibbs. We started 6-2 because we adhered to that running game. As the season went on, teams began to adjust to Zorn. How did Zorn adjust back? According to Clinton Portis, he tried to start changing things with the running game - the one thing that was working right! - and we went 2-6 in the 2nd half of the season.

We will not get better unless Zorn changes dramatically for the better in his 2nd year. Thus far, the only changes he has instituted have hurt the team, not helped it. If Zorn keeps his staff and continues to do what Zorn wants to do (and not what has been proven to work), I fully expect us to be a 6-10 team at best next year.

Zorn was a very poor hire by Vinny. He was - by far - the dumbest of all the new rookie coaching hires made in the last offseason. it looked that way at the time and it has been confirmed by what we've seen miami, Baltimore, and Atlanta do this year. Vinny sealed his fate with the Zorn hire and the 2009-2010 offseason can't come soon enough.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Where's the rest of your list? Considering you thought Zorn was a poor hire and couldn't wait for next off-season there must be a longer list, no?

http://www.thewarpath.net/518653-post33.html

So I guess the lesson is not to flip flop on SmootSmack's watch.. You sure you're not wasting your talents at The Worldwide Leader rather than being a fact checker for politicians?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

So I guess the lesson is not to flip flop on SmootSmack's watch.. You sure you're not wasting your talents at The Worldwide Leader rather than being a fact checker for politicians?

We all change our mind on occasion about things, just been wondering how someone would change their mind over the course of three months where nothing has really happened.

[nimbh2]

i do not believe it was zorns fault we went down hill after mid way half of our line got hurt so he had to change up some how cambpell was running for his life and you cant win with out a healthy line no matter how good of a coach you are.

[MonkFan4Life]

My thoughts are what they are after every new coach comes in. Super Bowl in 3 seasons or less baby !

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Smoot, great memory! I had completely forgotten about that rant. If memory serves me, someone here (or on ES) who had some sort of connection to Portis crew (friend of a friend) indicated that Portis was mouthing off and that Zorn did not change the running game in the 2nd half of the season - that our problems really were almost soley due to the o-line breaking down and that, contrary to other reports that I had read, Zorn really was well-liked by the team. Seeing that i had inaccurate information, my whole basis for making Zorn the lone scapegoat for our teams problems were fundamentally flawed. That said, I still think it was foolish to hire Zorn as HC and force the WCO on Campbell.

However, now that we've made the switch, we need to stick with it. If, as some have stated, Zorn really was hired as nothing more than a stop-gap, then we shouldnt have given him a 2nd year. Shanahan and Gruden are available now - why the delay? Which means Snyder must really be coveting Cowher or Holmgren (if the stop-gap theory is true). Which brings me to...

Originally Posted by PainTrain

If it happened, and I'm not advocating it, I wouldn't look at it as here we go again. If Snyder hires a Shanahan or Cowher, he's looking at a 10 year hire, and the first $100 million coach. With that kind of investment he's got to give full and complete control.

Zorn really had 'stopgap' written on him from jump. There wasn't a plan to replace Gibbs so Snyder had to go with what he could in a 'weak' coaching market that year. To hook a big fish he's going to have to shed his albatross in Vinny which was reportedly the barrier to getting Spags from NYG and take a large step back from football operations.

Very interesting take on the situation, Pain. I think 10 years is a bit long for a contract, but 10M/year over 5+ years would be enough garaunteed cash that Snyder would be "forced" to stick with his decision. I wouldnt like starting over from scratch, but i could live with it if it garaunteed 5+ years with a superbowl HC.

I know numerous people have commented that Cowher wouldnt come here because he's close to Marty, but Marty has gone on record saying he and Snyder are friends and he'd work for Snyder again... so what if Snyder hired Cowher as coach and Shotty as GM and committed to them for 5+ years? Something like THAT I could live with.

What I absolutely couldnt live with is Shanahan or Holmgren serving as coach AND GM... neither has done well with both responsibilities in the past. And Gruden shouldnt even be in the conversation. Maybe as a QB coach/OC but thats it.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

We all change our mind on occasion about things, just been wondering how someone would change their mind over the course of three months where nothing has really happened.

I have no problem changing my opinion when i've been proved wrong. I know most of you won't beleive it, but I'd like nothing more (when it comes to the Redskins) than for Campbell to prove me wrong.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Smoot, great memory! I had completely forgotten about that rant. If memory serves me, someone here (or on ES) who had some sort of connection to Portis crew (friend of a friend) indicated that Portis was mouthing off and that Zorn did not change the running game in the 2nd half of the season - that our problems really were almost soley due to the o-line breaking down and that, contrary to other reports that I had read, Zorn really was well-liked by the team. Seeing that i had inaccurate information, my whole basis for making Zorn the lone scapegoat for our teams problems were fundamentally flawed. That said, I still think it was foolish to hire Zorn as HC and force the WCO on Campbell.

I have a bit of a photogenic memory, it's a blessing and a curse. I could visualize that post in my head. Was just a matter of finding it online. Yeah, there's that dude on ES who claims (I'm sure he is) to be tight with Porti or someone close to Portis. Zorn is going through growing pains with the players, earning their respect and vice-versa

However, now that we've made the switch, we need to stick with it. If, as some have stated, Zorn really was hired as nothing more than a stop-gap, then we shouldnt have given him a 2nd year. Shanahan and Gruden are available now - why the delay? Which means Snyder must really be coveting Cowher or Holmgren (if the stop-gap theory is true). Which brings me to...

I agree that we should stick with him. I would have preferred Fassel myself but we chose Zorn. Why not see what he can do with a few years under his belt?

Very interesting take on the situation, Pain. I think 10 years is a bit long for a contract, but 10M/year over 5+ years would be enough garaunteed cash that Snyder would be "forced" to stick with his decision. I wouldnt like starting over from scratch, but i could live with it if it garaunteed 5+ years with a superbowl HC.

I know numerous people have commented that Cowher wouldnt come here because he's close to Marty, but Marty has gone on record saying he and Snyder are friends and he'd work for Snyder again... so what if Snyder hired Cowher as coach and Shotty as GM and committed to them for 5+ years? Something like THAT I could live with.

Yeah, I know I've mentioned in the past that Marty and Snyder get along well now and I know (at least I've heard) that Cowher and Marty have talked to an extent about working together again. Schottenheimer has said he only wants a front office position now, and Cowher has said Schotteheimer is one guy he'd work for.

What I absolutely couldnt live with is Shanahan or Holmgren serving as coach AND GM... neither has done well with both responsibilities in the past. And Gruden shouldnt even be in the conversation. Maybe as a QB coach/OC but thats it.

Word

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by irish

Cowher isnt coming here ever. He wont put up with DS's way of running a team. Also, there is no way either Cowher of Shanahan would stay for 10 years. Besides DS not having that kind of patience, those are older men and they understand the meatgrinder that is NFL coaching and 10 years is a long time under that stress. If you ask me, Zorn should be the 10 year hire. He younger and full of energy having never been thru the meat grinder. IMO, Zorn should stay for a minimum of 5 years no matter what happens but with an owner like DS that will never happen.

As a side note:

Bill Cowher
Born: May 8, 1957 (1957-05-08) (age 51)
Crafton, Pennsylvania

Jim Zorn
Born: May 10, 1953 (1953-05-10) (age 55)
Whittier, California

Mike Shanahan
Date of birthAugust 24, 1952 (1952-08-24) (age 56)

Jon Gruden
Date of birthAugust 17, 1963 (1963-08-17) (age 45)

To be honest with you they all are about the same age other then Gruden but he's only 5 or 6 yrs off Cowher.

[SBXVII]

There were many issues last yr. Piss pour coaching pool to pick from. No one would have known how well the other Rookie coach's would have done. DS was only looking for a HC cause he hand picked the OC, then had to offer it to the OC since no one wanted to come to the Skins in an already made staff. Most coach's would want to pick their own staff. DS was basically having difficulty locating any interested coach's for the position. I know it sounds good to say DS decided to go in other directions but truly how much of it was the coach's saying no I'm not interested. Except for Fassel. I think DS was truly looking at Fassel and I honestly believe, and I'm probably being nieve, that between fan and media pressure DS changed his mind. It's all about ticket sales and if a new coach does not inspire you then no one will show up.

Since we have finally changed to a WCO I think we should stick with it. If it means staying with Zorn so be it. If one of the other coach's run a WCO and Zorn is not getting it done then bring in the new coach. Totally switching back and forth system to system is going to hurt us more then help us.

Having said all that I'll flip flop now. Bringing in Shotty as GM and having Cowher as coach would be interesting.

[irish]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

As a side note:

Bill Cowher
Born: May 8, 1957 (1957-05-08) (age 51)
Crafton, Pennsylvania

Jim Zorn
Born: May 10, 1953 (1953-05-10) (age 55)
Whittier, California

Mike Shanahan
Date of birthAugust 24, 1952 (1952-08-24) (age 56)

Jon Gruden
Date of birthAugust 17, 1963 (1963-08-17) (age 45)

To be honest with you they all are about the same age other then Gruden but he's only 5 or 6 yrs off Cowher.

They are all the same age but Zorn hasnt been through the meat grinder like the others have.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by irish

They are all the same age but Zorn hasnt been through the meat grinder like the others have.

That was my feeling as well. I would much rather give Zorn a fairly comfortable 5 yr window, but of course, I also would keep JC as qb, so I don't know that my thoughts are in line with the FO right now.

[SBXVII]

Perhaps the meat grinder has created wisdom? Perhaps the meat grinder has shown what works and what doesn't. Instead of creating our own meat grinder and sending Zorn through it we could trade out for a coach that knows what it takes to get to the SB and hopefully not go through the meat grinder again.

[TenandSix:Unacceptable]

Zorn is God.

[Trample the Elderly]

If this was Zorn's fifth year and we didn't go deep into the play-offs then i'd welcome it. Since it's his second year with his first being so-so then no, I'm not cool with it. Give the man some time.