Greg Blache Defensive Scheme!!

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by an23dy

If we are undeniably a worse defense than Philly how did we beat em twice, because our offense or special teams undeniably is not better than Philly's. You're just looking at it based on hype from the media.

This argument is akin to saying something like, "if meteorologists are undeniably better predictors of weather than sportscasters, then how come it rained yesterday?" It's neither here nor there. Philadelphia was ranked ahead of us by every defensive measure, points, yards, etc, and they had to defend way, way more drives.

If you look at results we gave up 4th lowest yard total and 6th lowest point total. And oif course people are going to come back with we didn't cause enough turnovers and that's true, but when you play a riskier style you also give up big plays. We played solid and that's why the overall stats are good. And in terms of turnovers, I believe we were 2nd in the NFL in 3 and outs, which is basically a turnover, same as a 30 yard interception for example.

Also, I thought I heard talk about Blache possibly retiring after this year and sticking around for one more year. I don't know his contract or anything like that, but I hope he does retire after this year so we can get Gray. I expect the defense to be good this year which may keep Blache around, and if it does I expect Gray to be gone with another D-coordinator job.

Per game yardage totals and points totals don't consider how often you faced an opponents drive, because the style of the offense (slow vs. fast) will affect how many drives a defense has to defend. Also, a defense that struggles to get off the field will have to face fewer drives. We actually weren't very good at getting three and outs, as much as we were at eventually forcing punts.

But it was a few things that put us behind the Tampa's and Chicago's of the world in defense last year, and I think turnovers are a big part of that. I don't have any doubt that they will improve in those phases this year, Blache-permitting. Interesting points, you make.

[GTripp0012]

But when you get right down to defense, and you ask: how many points per drive do you guys give up, the Redskins finished 6th in that measure last year (9th in yards per drive). Even though that doesn't consider turnovers, that's the very high water mark for determining how strong of a defense we are. If anyone was wondering, the five teams I listed as "undeniably better" finished 1-5 in pts per drive. They all created more turnovers and opportunities for the offense than ours did, and that's why I wouldn't even rank us as high as No. 6 based on last years results.

It's all mental masturbation anyhow. Our defense set the tone for the entire season, playing better than .500 ball at the beginning of the year, and worse than .500 in the end of the year. The overall product was almost perfectly average. I, too, hope to see more contributions from the offense this year, but the FO was correct to invest the help on the defensive side.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I would then change my sentence to read an above average playoff caliber defense, should hold a no win team to 0 points with one minute to go.

Yes Torrence gave that catch up, but at the time the pass rush was blamed because their qb should have been sitting facedown eating turf. But we had NO pass rush.

How do you say Blache started with chicken s***? We had the number 8 ranked D the previous year. Not really chicken s***.

Well are they good or not? No pass rush usually means a bad defense. Springs never played and their only all-pro was murdered. Their best corner scratched his ear with his cleats against New England the year before and was covering people on a new knee. Their weak side linebacker was on a new knee and faded down the stretch yet at the end of the year they were able to hold Philly (one of the best offenses in the league in the middle of another NFC Championship game season) to 3 points.

I would say that Blache did an excellent job with fairly little.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

But when you get right down to defense, and you ask: how many points per drive do you guys give up, the Redskins finished 6th in that measure last year (9th in yards per drive). Even though that doesn't consider turnovers, that's the very high water mark for determining how strong of a defense we are. If anyone was wondering, the five teams I listed as "undeniably better" finished 1-5 in pts per drive. They all created more turnovers and opportunities for the offense than ours did, and that's why I wouldn't even rank us as high as No. 6 based on last years results.

It's all mental masturbation anyhow. Our defense set the tone for the entire season, playing better than .500 ball at the beginning of the year, and worse than .500 in the end of the year. The overall product was almost perfectly average. I, too, hope to see more contributions from the offense this year, but the FO was correct to invest the help on the defensive side.

GT curious what you think was behind that 2nd half (of the season) dip in defense? Looking at injuries Marcus was out the most...we went 7-4 when he played and 1-4 when he didn't overall i believe. Springs was there off and on too but IMO his performance late in season was pretty paltry. Anyway i'm sure there was more too it than injuries so curious what you think.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by The Goat

GT curious what you think was behind that 2nd half (of the season) dip in defense? Looking at injuries Marcus was out the most...we went 7-4 when he played and 1-4 when he didn't overall i believe. Springs was there off and on too but IMO his performance late in season was pretty paltry. Anyway i'm sure there was more too it than injuries so curious what you think.

Statistically, I can say the biggest decliners were:

1) Horton
1a) Horton
2) McIntosh
3) Evans
4) Carter (mostly due to injury, some regression to mean)

And then there was some regression to mean from Rogers, who was other-worldly in the first six games.

The rest of the decline was Blache being overtly dumb.

But then of course there were the other culprits who we're disappointing the whole year:

1) Smoot
2) Landry
3) Jason Taylor, to an extent

I thought Blache called a pretty good first half of the season, but maybe that was just the schedule. A lot of inexperienced offensive lines and poor passing offenses made all the blitzing not-ineffective. But then when we saw that Dallas' and New York's of the world, it was pretty embarassing to watch.

And for the record, I thought Blache called strong games against the Seahawks and Ravens (and an excellent one against Philly). But the decline was in full swing by that point. This suggests, to me at least, that while Blache was hardly at all responsible for the decline, he simply became part of the problem in the second half of the season.

[MTK]

How about the fact the level of competition was simply stronger in the 2nd half of the season?

[GTripp0012]

I thought the two highest intensity games the defense played were against the Cowboys and Giants, but we were in some pretty lousy calls.

Overall, I thought the first half and second half of the schedule were pretty even talent-wise. We went two and one against the crap teams in the first half of the year, and one and two against the crap teams in the second half. The big difference was all in the Cowboys, and Giants games I thought. We were completely outschemed in those games.

Now, I don't think that means we're likely to be outschemed by them in the future, but I think that was the number one cause for the 6 second half losses, is that even when we played a great game and won the battle in the trenches, we got beaten on the chalkboard anyway.

But that's the big difference. In the first half of the year, our best defensive efforts became wins against good teams. In the second, they became losses to good teams. They were somewhat inconsistent all year long.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

I don't think anyone thought we had a CHAMPIONSHIP DEFENSE (whatever that is). We had an above average playoff calibre defense and a mickey mouse offense. That is why we were 8-8.

Now that I think about it, didn't part time Superhero L. Torrence give up the catch that set up the field goal?

Blache turned chicken s--- into chicken salad last year.

Every cornerback in the league has given up a pass like that.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

How about the fact the level of competition was simply stronger in the 2nd half of the season?

Maybe bro...although we did play the Saints, Cowboys and Cards early on came up w/ wins...but our offense was scoring about twice as many points (24 instead of 12). I was sort of hinting earlier that maybe the offensive collapse had something to do w/ the defense wearing down.

Edit: i mean the offensive collapse partially caused the defense to get wore down...not the other way around

[FRPLG]

I've always felt, with both Blache and Williams, that our approach on defense has been to go smoke and mirrors. With the lack of a real pass-rush we always seem to be pretty much a one-trick pony (stop the run). So the Greg(g)s really play to that one-trick, overkill it really, and hope it is enough. Against lesser teams and early on before teams figure it out it does work but then offenses adjust and we really have no where to go. Just not enough dynamicism because of talent. I am concerned also that we get so ingrained with that mentality than even when we finally get the right mix of talent to be more dynamic we don't shift accordingly. Really there has to be a strategic plan to advance the defensive scheme and it's effectiveness through talent acquisition pointed towards a defensive vision. I am hopeful that we only run our current schemes out of the recognition of our short-comings and that there really is a long-term vision, coaching-wise, for where we want the defense to be.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

Well are they good or not? No pass rush usually means a bad defense. Springs never played and their only all-pro was murdered. Their best corner scratched his ear with his cleats against New England the year before and was covering people on a new knee. Their weak side linebacker was on a new knee and faded down the stretch yet at the end of the year they were able to hold Philly (one of the best offenses in the league in the middle of another NFC Championship game season) to 3 points.

I would say that Blache did an excellent job with fairly little.

What I am saying is that our D while good, had some issues. Not quite sure what your problem about that is. The phrase "4th ranked defense" is often used here, and I think it is fair to point out the fact that there were several games where the offense, as lackluster as it was got the lead in the 4th quarter, and the defense lost it. To say that the every loss was on the offense, which is what you seem to be arguing, ignores several very strong 4th quarters from the offense, or the fact that in Dallas and Baltimore games, the offense was trying to get into the game, and our 4th quarter defense gave up 8-10 minute time of possessions.
I think Blache had the players he wanted, he basically set Rodgers on the shelf, a very bad decision to me. He blitzed like a mad man, even when it was shown as ineffective. Hopefully AH/Orakpo will make those blitzes less frequent and more effective.

[saden1]

Apparently the 4th best defense in the league that was supplemented with mediocre offense needs tweaking. Lets hope we can jump the Ravens and the Steelers next year.

p.s. I'm trying to be cute.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Every cornerback in the league has given up a pass like that.

And mediocre corners like Torrence give up more than most.

[NYCskinfan82]

GB a good coach he now on paper has a DL that will require the opposing OL to keep TE & RB to block, leaving opposing OF with less options. GB did wonders with what he had.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I could be wrong, but I am guessing it was lack of true talent that prevented him from letting the players go. What's the point of sending 8 players if none of them touch the QB, so he kept them in pass coverage. He did what he needed to to get by. The fact that we were 4th in defense shows a lot about what Blache did with less than stellar talent up front.

Blache played to our defensive strength, which was clearly the range and athletic ability of our DBs. With Haynesworth and Orakpo, we will get to the QB much more. Their presence all but guarantee one-on-one matchups for Andre Carter and Cornelius Griffin. Add in Montgomery, Golston, Daniels, and Alexander, and we have a nice deep rotation on the D-line. I predict that Blache will use much the same scheme at the beginning of next season to see if we can hit the QB consistently while rushing four.