Why Gibbs is Sticking with Brunell..my opinion that is.

MTK · 10-19-2004, 12:47 PM

I have a feeling that Brunell is more hurt than he or the coaches are letting on. If you watch him throw he doesn't seem to set properly and follow through on his delivery. For a veteran like him to be displaying such poor mechanics it tells me something is wrong.

Plus with the remark Gibbs made after the game about having Brunell back healthy after the bye it tells me he's defininitely playing hurt and it's having an effect on his arm strength and accuracy.

diehardskin2982 · 10-19-2004, 03:04 PM

I agree Mattyk, when he left because of injury last year he lost his job so he may fear the same in washington. I feel that if this is so that his actions are detrimental to the team and I wouldn't want him leading our franchise anymore. Ramsey is a grown man i hope Gibbs is not babying him like was stated at the begining of this post. if he can't take the heat when he's put in there... then throw he sensitive ass out the kitchen and draft someone better. The qb position no matter who it is, is letting the others down especially the defense. Brunnell needs to put his igo aside and step down, so we can get somewhere this year, while we still have a chance.

That Guy · 10-19-2004, 07:54 PM

if he could play like those last 5 minutes in dallas all the time, i'd be his biggest fan, but 35% and under 100 yards is really just giving me headaches... hopefully he'll get better since i'm obviously not getting my wish for the time being... you'd think if he's hurt THAT bad, they'd put someone in till he could actually play even marginally again...

sportscurmudgeon · 10-19-2004, 10:14 PM

Lady T:

You pose an interesting rhetorical question that leads to the conclusion that Ranmsey should start.

But suppose - just suppose - that you have already seen the absolute BEST that Patrick Ramsey has to offer. What is his record in games he started? Is it a playoff record? The short answer is, NO!! In that hypothetical situation, what good does the change do for this season? If you want to see it go down the drain, put in the Patrick Ramsey that we have seen in the past and the team will be headed to about 5 or 6 wins a year for quite a while. Or are you postive that he will morph immediately into a reincarnated John Unitas as soon as he is named the starter? I'm not.

In the preseason, Ramsey looked awful. So did Brunell, but Brunell has one thing in his background that Ramsey does NOT have. Brunell has had a LOT of success in the NFL winning football games. He's led a team - an expansion team one year removed no less - to a conference championship game. Ramsey has not done anything even remotely comparable. Standing in the pocket and getting clobbered by opposing defensive linemen shows he tough but not that he is a winner - - and that is about the most positive thing in his favor to date.

Ramsey has yet to show that he can lead a team to a winning season - let alone the playoffs. That is a fact; that is unarguable. He MIGHT be a lot better than Brunell sometime in the future, but until he shows - in practice or in the next preseason or in this year if the Skins are eliminated from the playoffs - that he is better than Brunell NOW, he is going to collect butt splinters on the bench. And that is as it ought to be. And he MIGHT be a lot worse in the present and the future than Mark Brunell has ever been or ever will be. Just saying over and over again that he is great and has such potential does not win games; it just repeats the same phrases over and over and over...

Jets' coach Herman Edwards - also an excellent coach and a solid citizen - said that the only reason you play is "to win the game". You don't play to win some game that might happen next year or the season after next; you play to win the game on this Sunday. Ramsey is there in case Brunell gets hurt. Other than that, he'll start when he convinces Coach Gibbs in practice that he is a better QB THIS WEEK than Mark Brunell.

BTW, if Tim Hasselbeck happened to convince Coach Gibbs that he was better than both Ramsey and Brunell, he'd be the starter too...

MTK · 10-19-2004, 11:09 PM

Damn SC I couldn't agree more, nice post

SUNRA · 10-19-2004, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Lady T:

You pose an interesting rhetorical question that leads to the conclusion that Ranmsey should start.

But suppose - just suppose - that you have already seen the absolute BEST that Patrick Ramsey has to offer. What is his record in games he started? Is it a playoff record? The short answer is, NO!! In that hypothetical situation, what good does the change do for this season? If you want to see it go down the drain, put in the Patrick Ramsey that we have seen in the past and the team will be headed to about 5 or 6 wins a year for quite a while. Or are you postive that he will morph immediately into a reincarnated John Unitas as soon as he is named the starter? I'm not.

In the preseason, Ramsey looked awful. So did Brunell, but Brunell has one thing in his background that Ramsey does NOT have. Brunell has had a LOT of success in the NFL winning football games. He's led a team - an expansion team one year removed no less - to a conference championship game. Ramsey has not done anything even remotely comparable. Standing in the pocket and getting clobbered by opposing defensive linemen shows he tough but not that he is a winner - - and that is about the most positive thing in his favor to date.

Ramsey has yet to show that he can lead a team to a winning season - let alone the playoffs. That is a fact; that is unarguable. He MIGHT be a lot better than Brunell sometime in the future, but until he shows - in practice or in the next preseason or in this year if the Skins are eliminated from the playoffs - that he is better than Brunell NOW, he is going to collect butt splinters on the bench. And that is as it ought to be. And he MIGHT be a lot worse in the present and the future than Mark Brunell has ever been or ever will be. Just saying over and over again that he is great and has such potential does not win games; it just repeats the same phrases over and over and over...

Jets' coach Herman Edwards - also an excellent coach and a solid citizen - said that the only reason you play is "to win the game". You don't play to win some game that might happen next year or the season after next; you play to win the game on this Sunday. Ramsey is there in case Brunell gets hurt. Other than that, he'll start when he convinces Coach Gibbs in practice that he is a better QB THIS WEEK than Mark Brunell.

BTW, if Tim Hasselbeck happened to convince Coach Gibbs that he was better than both Ramsey and Brunell, he'd be the starter too...

Let the Church say Amen! Finally a voice of reason.

SUNRA · 10-19-2004, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

I agree Mattyk, when he left because of injury last year he lost his job so he may fear the same in washington. I feel that if this is so that his actions are detrimental to the team and I wouldn't want him leading our franchise anymore. Ramsey is a grown man i hope Gibbs is not babying him like was stated at the begining of this post. if he can't take the heat when he's put in there... then throw he sensitive ass out the kitchen and draft someone better. The qb position no matter who it is, is letting the others down especially the defense. Brunnell needs to put his igo aside and step down, so we can get somewhere this year, while we still have a chance.

Come on, when have you ever heard of a player stepping down to give another person a chance. You or I wouldn't do that on our job so why even suggest that for someone else?

SUNRA · 10-19-2004, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4TH RING

I hate to come off so negetively, but I think our defense is selling out and IMO defenses like this could go a long way in the postseason. We just need consistancy on the part of the offense. I hope i'm wrong because if Brunnel could get it back and we could get in as a wild card, anything could happen.

If the playoffs were right now, we would be looking at the Rams, Eagles, Giants, Seahawks, Vikings and Falcons. We all know the reputation of the Vikings during the midseason to fall off. I believe they were 7-0 last year and didn't make the playoffs. We will have to go on a winning streak after the bye and split with Philly, Giants and Cowboys to better our chances. We definitely can do it with Lavar and Mike Barrow back.

That Guy · 10-20-2004, 12:01 AM

unless there's a miracle in the passing game, we won't be getting within 3 TDs of the iggles, let alone splitting games... here's hoping, but 2-4 and in 4th place in our division is a harsh place to suggest playoff aspirations from...

joecrisp · 10-20-2004, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

But suppose - just suppose - that you have already seen the absolute BEST that Patrick Ramsey has to offer....

I would suppose that outlook would be rather short-sighted, wouldn't you? Which makes more sense: to assume that a 25 year-old has realized his full potential, or that an accomplished 34 year-old veteran has given the best he has to offer?

Let me ask you this: how old was Mark Brunell when he began his ascent to the realm of "accomplished" quarterbacks? The year was 1995, Mark Brunell was in his third season as a pro, in his first season in Jacksonville, and he was the tender young age of-- you guessed it!-- 25 years old. In his two seasons prior to taking the reigns of the Jacksonville offense, he had played in exactly two games, completed 12 of 27 passes for 97 yards, and posted a 53.8 QB rating. He went from that, to completing 58 percent of his passes, throwing 15 touchdowns to 7 interceptions, and posting an 82.6 quarterback rating in his third season.

Now, suppose the folks in charge had judged him based on his limited and unimpressive experience, rather than choosing to explore his vast potential.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Jets' coach Herman Edwards - also an excellent coach and a solid citizen - said that the only reason you play is "to win the game". You don't play to win some game that might happen next year or the season after next; you play to win the game on this Sunday. Ramsey is there in case Brunell gets hurt. Other than that, he'll start when he convinces Coach Gibbs in practice that he is a better QB THIS WEEK than Mark Brunell.

First of all, Brunell IS HURT. Secondly, Brunell has lost more games than he has won as a Redskin, and those losses are due in no small part to Brunell's inability to throw the ball with accuracy and velocity-- ostensibly because he's injured. If that's the case, then the healthy second-string guy (whether that's Ramsey or Hasselbeck or YoYo Ma) should be playing shouldn't he?

I have a hard time believing Mark Brunell looked splendid in practice all these weeks, and then suddenly became incompetent at kickoff. I also have a hard time believing that Coach Gibbs has seen enough of either of his backup quarterbacks in practice the past few weeks to make any determination as to whether they would be a better option than an injured Brunell. According to most reports I've read-- and based on the reality of regular season practice rep distribution-- Brunell has been taking the vast majority of the snaps since the latter portion of Dallas week.

As for Herm Edwards' oft-referenced quote regarding winning games and winning them now... well, I do believe that's the whole reason this debate began isn't it? Folks would be fine with Brunell if his performance produced 4 wins in six games instead of 4 losses, and he were able to put away a Bears team that ranked near the bottom of the league in pass defense, instead of staggering to a 13-10 wimper of a win over another one-win team. The bottom line is, if Brunell were winning more games than he were losing, this debate wouldn't be happening.

SmootSmack · 10-20-2004, 02:11 AM

Yeah...what Crisp said

NY_Skinsfan · 10-20-2004, 02:23 AM

haha....that's what i was going to say

Luxorreb · 10-20-2004, 08:02 AM

I agree w/ Crisp.
Brunell hasn't played horribly, but has passed horribly. I'd rather him toss the ball outta bounds than into a defenders hand, but when the WR is wide open and the ball sails outta bounds on account of a hammy its time to put in the healthy guy. Brunell is a good QB and he is obviously hurt. I'm all for starting anyone else that can hit a wide open Coles for a TD even if it's Brian Mitchell. I trust Gibbs and I think in the end of his 2nd tenure w/ the Redskins we will all look back and make sense of this mess. Ramsey is the QB of the future and the future is now. Thing is Brunell is capable of winning a SB if he doesn't turn the ball over in support of our WHOOPASS defense. And well he's scored for the other team several times. If I were the coach Ramsey would be starting against the Pack, but do you remember what happened when he started against the Pack last time? Talk about a low point in Skins history. My bottom line is I'm sticking w/ Gibbs even though I disagree w/ QB starter at present. Coach GIbbs will overcome.

MTK · 10-20-2004, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUNRA

Come on, when have you ever heard of a player stepping down to give another person a chance. You or I wouldn't do that on our job so why even suggest that for someone else?

Warner kinda did it not too long ago when he told Martz that Bulger should be playing, I think it was a game against Chicago.

Anyway, he caught alot of heat for that, people said he wasn't a true warrior, that guys don't step aside no matter what, blah blah. I imagine if Brunell did step aside the same people that are blasting him now for not doing it, would blast him for doing it.

So of course Brunell isn't going to just step aside, he obviously feels he can play so he's going to keep going back out there. It shouldn't be up to the player, because 99% of the time the player is going to want to play, that's when the coaches have to step in and make the determination that a guy is too hurt to play.

That Guy · 10-20-2004, 09:48 AM

brunell left jacksonville cause he wasn't going to be able to play there, so why do you think he came here?? it wasn't to ride the bench, so i doubt he of all people is going to step down.

10-19-2004, 03:04 PM	#32
diehardskin2982 Another Year, another mess. Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,581	I agree Mattyk, when he left because of injury last year he lost his job so he may fear the same in washington. I feel that if this is so that his actions are detrimental to the team and I wouldn't want him leading our franchise anymore. Ramsey is a grown man i hope Gibbs is not babying him like was stated at the begining of this post. if he can't take the heat when he's put in there... then throw he sensitive ass out the kitchen and draft someone better. The qb position no matter who it is, is letting the others down especially the defense. Brunnell needs to put his igo aside and step down, so we can get somewhere this year, while we still have a chance. __________________ That got ugly fast

10-19-2004, 10:14 PM	#34
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	Lady T: You pose an interesting rhetorical question that leads to the conclusion that Ranmsey should start. But suppose - just suppose - that you have already seen the absolute BEST that Patrick Ramsey has to offer. What is his record in games he started? Is it a playoff record? The short answer is, NO!! In that hypothetical situation, what good does the change do for this season? If you want to see it go down the drain, put in the Patrick Ramsey that we have seen in the past and the team will be headed to about 5 or 6 wins a year for quite a while. Or are you postive that he will morph immediately into a reincarnated John Unitas as soon as he is named the starter? I'm not. In the preseason, Ramsey looked awful. So did Brunell, but Brunell has one thing in his background that Ramsey does NOT have. Brunell has had a LOT of success in the NFL winning football games. He's led a team - an expansion team one year removed no less - to a conference championship game. Ramsey has not done anything even remotely comparable. Standing in the pocket and getting clobbered by opposing defensive linemen shows he tough but not that he is a winner - - and that is about the most positive thing in his favor to date. Ramsey has yet to show that he can lead a team to a winning season - let alone the playoffs. That is a fact; that is unarguable. He MIGHT be a lot better than Brunell sometime in the future, but until he shows - in practice or in the next preseason or in this year if the Skins are eliminated from the playoffs - that he is better than Brunell NOW, he is going to collect butt splinters on the bench. And that is as it ought to be. And he MIGHT be a lot worse in the present and the future than Mark Brunell has ever been or ever will be. Just saying over and over again that he is great and has such potential does not win games; it just repeats the same phrases over and over and over... Jets' coach Herman Edwards - also an excellent coach and a solid citizen - said that the only reason you play is "to win the game". You don't play to win some game that might happen next year or the season after next; you play to win the game on this Sunday. Ramsey is there in case Brunell gets hurt. Other than that, he'll start when he convinces Coach Gibbs in practice that he is a better QB THIS WEEK than Mark Brunell. BTW, if Tim Hasselbeck happened to convince Coach Gibbs that he was better than both Ramsey and Brunell, he'd be the starter too... __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

10-20-2004, 02:11 AM	#41
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Yeah...what Crisp said __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

10-20-2004, 08:02 AM	#43
Luxorreb ^21^ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Richmond, Virginia Age: 52 Posts: 1,630	I agree w/ Crisp. Brunell hasn't played horribly, but has passed horribly. I'd rather him toss the ball outta bounds than into a defenders hand, but when the WR is wide open and the ball sails outta bounds on account of a hammy its time to put in the healthy guy. Brunell is a good QB and he is obviously hurt. I'm all for starting anyone else that can hit a wide open Coles for a TD even if it's Brian Mitchell. I trust Gibbs and I think in the end of his 2nd tenure w/ the Redskins we will all look back and make sense of this mess. Ramsey is the QB of the future and the future is now. Thing is Brunell is capable of winning a SB if he doesn't turn the ball over in support of our WHOOPASS defense. And well he's scored for the other team several times. If I were the coach Ramsey would be starting against the Pack, but do you remember what happened when he started against the Pack last time? Talk about a low point in Skins history. My bottom line is I'm sticking w/ Gibbs even though I disagree w/ QB starter at present. Coach GIbbs will overcome. __________________ ^21^

10-19-2004, 12:47 PM	#31
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	I have a feeling that Brunell is more hurt than he or the coaches are letting on. If you watch him throw he doesn't seem to set properly and follow through on his delivery. For a veteran like him to be displaying such poor mechanics it tells me something is wrong. Plus with the remark Gibbs made after the game about having Brunell back healthy after the bye it tells me he's defininitely playing hurt and it's having an effect on his arm strength and accuracy.

10-19-2004, 07:54 PM	#33
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,553	if he could play like those last 5 minutes in dallas all the time, i'd be his biggest fan, but 35% and under 100 yards is really just giving me headaches... hopefully he'll get better since i'm obviously not getting my wish for the time being... you'd think if he's hurt THAT bad, they'd put someone in till he could actually play even marginally again...

10-19-2004, 11:09 PM	#35
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,518	Damn SC I couldn't agree more, nice post

10-20-2004, 12:01 AM	#39
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,553	unless there's a miracle in the passing game, we won't be getting within 3 TDs of the iggles, let alone splitting games... here's hoping, but 2-4 and in 4th place in our division is a harsh place to suggest playoff aspirations from...

10-20-2004, 02:23 AM	#42
NY_Skinsfan Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Albany, NY Age: 51 Posts: 838	haha....that's what i was going to say

10-20-2004, 09:48 AM	#45
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,553	brunell left jacksonville cause he wasn't going to be able to play there, so why do you think he came here?? it wasn't to ride the bench, so i doubt he of all people is going to step down.

Why Gibbs is Sticking with Brunell..my opinion that is.

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