Cerrato's Not (Just) Incompetent - He's Oblivioius (Offensive Line / Dysfunctional Coaching Staff Related)

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Do we need to draft an OL in the first round though to build the line? Why can't we draft OL in the 2nd round, trade for a pick in the 3rd and draft another there (RB in the 4th), OL in the 5th round?

That depends on who's making the pick IMO. If it's Vinny, yeah we do. He only seems to be good in the first and seventh.

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Do we need to draft an OL in the first round though to build the line? Why can't we draft OL in the 2nd round, trade for a pick in the 3rd and draft another there (RB in the 4th), OL in the 5th round?

your logic scares me, knock it off, we don't like that kinda thinkin around here

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Do we need to draft an OL in the first round though to build the line? Why can't we draft OL in the 2nd round, trade for a pick in the 3rd and draft another there (RB in the 4th), OL in the 5th round?

If we want players the caliber of Russell Okung we do. Why not try to get the best o-line we can for once?

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

If we want players the caliber of Russell Okung we do. Why not try to get the best o-line we can for once?

Especially given the success of first-round tackles over the past couple of seasons, I don't see why we can't get a franchise tackle.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Especially given the success of first-round tackles over the past couple of seasons, I don't see why we can't get a franchise tackle.

The tackle position is not only important, it also has a relatively high percentage of draft success, as you indicate.

[rbanerjee23]

ahahaha what a dumbass? I cannot believe this guy was hired, he has the iq of a piece of broccolli

[SmootSmack]

Do we want one stud or quality across the line, depth included?

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Do we want one stud or quality across the line, depth included?

I think both...however, given the fact that we haven't been able to produce a tackle of the future with the young players we've brought in and that we lost our franchise tackle, I believe we need a stud tackle.

We also need management competent enough to add depth during the lower rounds and/or free agency (like what Parcells did in Miami).

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Do we want one stud or quality across the line, depth included?

A first round stud and depth from the second or 3rd rounds. I wouldn't be opposed to drafting more than one 0-lineman. That seems to be what we do with receivers and LB's.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Do we want one stud or quality across the line, depth included?

Well all of the above is my thinking. I would be happiest if we used our first 2 or 3 picks on trench men, mostly because I think the oline needs the most improvement by a huge margin.

...I'm not against drafting QBs high. Honestly I just haven't a clue how you tell the quality prospects from the busts. I also ask the question, what do we want in our QB we don't have now? My biggest complaints on Jason are 1) tepidness (to the extreme if that makes sense) 2) inconsistency in decision-making 3) inconsistency in accuracy

Now IMO opinion most QBs struggle w/ #3 from time to time, #2 can improve markedly w/ solid coaching but the player also has to be capable of learning to think faster, and finally there is no coaching/teaching #1. Jason, from what I can tell, has zero passion for the game or for winning in particular. When I watch a Skins game w/ fans of other teams I hear the same thing a lot..."Your QB doesn't look like he cares much." For instance on Sunday when he threw the pick Jason just frowned and slapped his hands together. I mean you just lost any chance of winning the game against a division rival, a game your team should have won by all accounts, and the only show of emotion is a frown and a clap. I want my QB to go red in anger and let a string of expletives fly when that kind of thing happens. I want a fighter.

So I guess I question whether you can really "see" that fighting spirit in a 22 year old kid who's playing college ball for a number of reasons...win the game, get a bowl game, get into the pros, get the big contract. And upon arrival in the NFL I think there's just one real motivator left...the desire to win. Favre, Brady, and Peyton all love football sure, but it's winning football games that do it for those guys. Eff Manning especially looks like he wants to kick a puppy when he loses.

Using a really high draft pick on a QB, where the chemistry and the personality has to be just right to make things work, seems like too big a gamble when a team has really apparent needs like a terrible oline. On the whole I'm much for comfortable bringing a veteran guy who shows lots of guts, like a Garcia, or taking a chance on a guy who in his few opportunities has shown he really, really wants to make things happen out there and win, like Brennan.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Now IMO opinion most QBs struggle w/ #3 from time to time, #2 can improve markedly w/ solid coaching but the player also has to be capable of learning to think faster, and finally there is no coaching/teaching #1. Jason, from what I can tell, has zero passion for the game or for winning in particular. When I watch a Skins game w/ fans of other teams I hear the same thing a lot..."Your QB doesn't look like he cares much." For instance on Sunday when he threw the pick Jason just frowned and slapped his hands together. I mean you just lost any chance of winning the game against a division rival, a game your team should have won by all accounts, and the only show of emotion is a frown and a clap. I want my QB to go red in anger and let a string of expletives fly when that kind of thing happens. I want a fighter.

It's not about whether you win or lose, it's about how many people you can offend after the game.

Forgive me for not wishing we had a mental midget who can't handle his emotions at quarterback.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

It's not about whether you win or lose, it's about how many people you can offend after the game.

Forgive me for not wishing we had a mental midget who can't handle his emotions at quarterback.

I can't tell if you're being serious or not...again the great QBs of the day show intense emotion on and off the field. I've watched Tom Brady steam as he walks to the sideline, even yelling at those around him. Same for Peyton. But again my personal fav is Brees...I've watched him shout right at teammates coming off the field or on the sidelines but there's always a lot of positive enthusiasm (?) coming thru. Makes him maybe the most likable great QB in my book.

At any rate I don't know why anyone would want a QB, or any athlete for that matter, who didn't get psyched up for the game. Jeez the greatest athlete in my lifetime, Jordan, was almost always the most passionate personality on the court.

Tripp maybe you don't watch a lot of sports, or maybe you just can't see beyond your partiality for JC.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I can't tell if you're being serious or not...again the great QBs of the day show intense emotion on and off the field. I've watched Tom Brady steam as he walks to the sideline, even yelling at those around him. Same for Peyton. But again my personal fav is Brees...I've watched him shout right at teammates coming off the field or on the sidelines but there's always a lot of positive enthusiasm (?) coming thru. Makes him maybe the most likable great QB in my book.

At any rate I don't know why anyone would want a QB, or any athlete for that matter, who didn't get psyched up for the game. Jeez the greatest athlete in my lifetime, Jordan, was almost always the most passionate personality on the court.

Tripp maybe you don't watch a lot of sports, or maybe you just can't see beyond your partiality for JC.

Jeff George yelled at his teammates all the time. Ryan Leaf screamed at everyone. Joe Montana was one of the mildest mannered cats out there. Brett Favre, who is the most videoed and mic'd up QBs ever, doesn't have one clip of him lighting up one of his players.

Those overt shows of emotion have absolutely nothing to do with your ability to be an effective NFL QB.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Do we need to draft an OL in the first round though to build the line? Why can't we draft OL in the 2nd round, trade for a pick in the 3rd and draft another there (RB in the 4th), OL in the 5th round?

If we only needed DEPTH along the O-line, I would agree with you. However, we don't JUST need depth. We also need multiple STARTERS along the line.

Personally, I think our best bet is to trade down (what else is new?) in the first round, pick up a 2nd rounder and then use our first 3 picks (all in rounds 1 and 2) on a starting OT, a QB who can start in 2011, and another OL. Its going to take us a couple of years to fix this thing, so we might as well do it right. Our first priorities are drafting a QB of the future (not the present) and building a solid offensive line (starters - rounds 1-2) with good depth (backups - developmental guys in rounds 3-7).

[rbanerjee23]

I would like to see us trade the 1st for a later 1st and 2nd/3rd or multiple 2nd's and 3rd's given how high we will be in the draft. Use at least 3 picks for OL with 2 for tackles and 1 for guard or center. Use a later pick to get a decent qb or honestly, just stick with JC.
Most important step, get rid of Bugel, that guy sucks he took Stephon Heyer and regressed him, took Dockery and regressed him, took Rhinehart and did nothing with him so Buges is a big problem in my mind.

Sure it will take a couple of years but so what, instead of trying to patch up the team, build it from the ground floor up and give up the next year or two.