ESPN's Schefter channels his energy into NFL

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Jets:

LT: Ferguson-1st round (4th overall)
LG: Faneca-1st round (26th overall)
C: Mangold-1st round (29th overall)
RG: Moore-undrafted
RT: Woody-1st round (17th overall)

But when you think of how the Jets built this line (and even how the Ravens built theirs), it's mostly because of the value they put on the position. I mean, Mangold has developed into the league's best Center, which means he was way more valuable than the 29th overall pick, but no team besides the Jets was really considering him in the first round. They have him because they put a premium on a position that a team that continually trots out Casey Rabach clearly could care less about. It's a team that spent the 4th overall pick on a left tackle because they felt like if they could fill the position, it would free them up to do other things with the offense. And both Faneca and Woody were big money acquisitions.

The Ravens took Oher knowing that they probably could have convinced Anderson to give them one more season at the RT spot and got a high level of play out of him, but even with a young, elite LT, the Ravens took a guy that a bunch of other teams had undervalued. It's not like the Ravens didn't have needs elsewhere (such as WR or CB) that could have helped them just as much. They just prioritized the line. Flacco is just a standard-level first round talent, much like Jason Campbell, Josh Freeman, Jay Cutler, etc. But you keep feeding his offense talent, and he'll keep winning.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Why not draft a QB? It doesn't make much sense to just say let's just wait a year see what happens with Campbell and then get a QB in 2011. If we're in position to get one now, why not? He'll have a year in our system going into 2011.

I know we need linemen, but I think too many of us are thinking well let's just draft anyone that plays the position so we can pile up players in that position and hope a few stick. That doesn't make much sense to me. Plus, all the linemen in the world won't matter if there's no QB.

Exactly.. do people think with our 5 picks that's going to be our starting 5 linemen? You can find linemen by other means much easier than you can a QB.

[rbanerjee23]

JC with even decent protection is a game winning quarterback...is he the next theismann? no, is he better than 60-70% of the qbs in the league? I think so

[celts32]

I don't know who said it but I heard someone say in reference to JC that the Redskins can win with Jason Campbell but they will never win because of him. That sums it up for me. I am tired of having average or slightly above average play at QB...I want a QB that can be the reason the Redskins win and pull games out of the fire that would be lost with most QB's. That's what most of the QB's left in this years playoffs can do. I don't know who it is but if Shanny thinks there is a QB like that in this draft then he damn well better try to draft him.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by celts32

I don't know who said it but I heard someone say in reference to JC that the Redskins can win with Jason Campbell but they will never win because of him. That sums it up for me. I am tired of having average or slightly above average play at QB...I want a QB that can be the reason the Redskins win and pull games out of the fire that would be lost with most QB's. That's what most of the QB's left in this years playoffs can do. I don't know who it is but if Shanny thinks there is a QB like that in this draft then he damn well better try to draft him.

So someone you can't remember said something you like and it's right to you?

If you remember who this person is, ask them their opinions on the offensive line and if he/she/it thinks it could affect a QB's play.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Buster

So someone you can't remember said something you like and it's right to you?

If you remember who this person is, ask them their opinions on the offensive line and if he/she/it thinks it could affect a QB's play.

Of course the OL affects the QB's play and the QB holding the ball to long affects how the OL looks and the QB can affect the way the WR's look if he is not making the proper reads quickly. It's all tied together. IMO JC will never be more then pretty good regardless of how good the OL is and that's not good enough. I am not saying they should not bring him back but they should be looking for someone better imediately.

[SmootSmack]

I think sometimes people think saying you need strong line play makes you a more intelligent fan, as if saying QB play is important is something only casual, even ignorant fans who don't know any better would say.

Line play is important but too many of us are really underestimating the importance of good QB play. A good QB can make an average line look much better than it really is.

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think sometimes people think saying you need strong line play makes you a more intelligent fan, as if saying QB play is important is something only casual, even ignorant fans who don't know any better would say.

Line play is important but too many of us are really underestimating the importance of good QB play. A good QB can make an average line look much better than it really is.

I agree Smoot, but at the same time we need so much help. I am not saying I am an intelligent fan or I know how to build a football team , but at the same time I am a believer in you win the game in the trenches. Look at the Jets. Hell look at the Ravens.

DO you really feel that the guys in THIS draft class can go out and win games? I just don't see that player. Especially since most of the top guys are all hurt. The player you are looking for is there this year? That is where I am coming from. I don't see the guy in this draft who you are describing.

**EDIT***

Smoot if you feel that player is there then who is it? I am not starting a fight just want your opinion.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by artmonkforhallofamein07

I agree Smoot, but at the same time we need so much help. I am not saying I am an intelligent fan or I know how to build a football team , but at the same time I am a believer in you win the game in the trenches. Look at the Jets. Hell look at the Ravens.

DO you really feel that the guys in THIS draft class can go out and win games? I just don't see that player. Especially since most of the top guys are all hurt. The player you are looking for is there this year? That is where I am coming from. I don't see the guy in this draft who you are describing.

**EDIT***

Smoot if you feel that player is there then who is it? I am not starting a fight just want your opinion.

Here's the thing. I think Okung if he's there should be our first pick. But let's say he's not I don't want to take an offensive linemen at #4 because I don't believe there's any worth drafting there. I'd rather do something like Clausen and then maybe a Charles Brown in the 2nd. Until we make a formal commitment to Campbell for the long-term I gotta think we need a QB. Do we need to spend our first round pick on him? No. I think this QB class is better than we're giving it credit for.

But again, I think it's our desire of drafting linemen that is making us overlook the flaws and weaknesses of the OL in the draft and put the QBs under a microscope. I mentioned it here

http://www.thewarpath.net/652225-post55.html

[Zerohero]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think sometimes people think saying you need strong line play makes you a more intelligent fan, as if saying QB play is important is something only casual, even ignorant fans who don't know any better would say.

Line play is important but too many of us are really underestimating the importance of good QB play. A good QB can make an average line look much better than it really is.

Isn't this a weak year for first round qb's, that is good enough reason to not take what is already a very risky pick.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Zerohero

Isn't this a weak year for first round qb's, that is good enough reason to not take what is already a very risky pick.

I'm not arguing for a QB but it seems that this is a weak year for first round tackles, too.

[Zerohero]

Originally Posted by Lotus

I'm not arguing for a QB but it seems that this is a weak year for first round tackles, too.

that is true but lets look at two scenarios

Draft a qb which is proven high risk, give him tons of money and know that he will prob not even play first year. If he is a bust it is a complete loss, almost no trade value.

Draft an OL that is lower risk, give him good money but less than a QB would have got. If he is a bust, move him to RT. If he a bust keep moving down the line. Complete bust he still has trade value.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Zerohero

that is true but lets look at two scenarios

Draft a qb which is proven high risk, give him tons of money and know that he will prob not even play first year. If he is a bust it is a complete loss, almost no trade value.

Draft an OL that is lower risk, give him good money but less than a QB would have got. If he is a bust, move him to RT. If he a bust keep moving down the line. Complete bust he still has trade value.

Say what?

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Zerohero

that is true but lets look at two scenarios

Draft a qb which is proven high risk, give him tons of money and know that he will prob not even play first year. If he is a bust it is a complete loss, almost no trade value.

Draft an OL that is lower risk, give him good money but less than a QB would have got. If he is a bust, move him to RT. If he a bust keep moving down the line. Complete bust he still has trade value.

Suppose Mike Shanahan believes that JC is pretty good but Bradford or Clausen is a franchise QB. Do you want him to disregard what he believes and pick a LT anyway?

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Zerohero

that is true but lets look at two scenarios

Draft a qb which is proven high risk, give him tons of money and know that he will prob not even play first year. If he is a bust it is a complete loss, almost no trade value.

Draft an OL that is lower risk, give him good money but less than a QB would have got. If he is a bust, move him to RT. If he a bust keep moving down the line. Complete bust he still has trade value.

You are right that a first round QB is a greater risk than a first round tackle. But sometimes the risk pays off. What if the Colts had never risked taking Manning? Or if the Chargers had never risked taking Rivers? Etc. etc. The first round qb is high risk but also very high reward.

Again, I'm not arguing for a qb. And I sure don't want us to squander a pick on a Ryan Leaf. But if we could find the next Rivers, wouldn't that be cool?