93 MEGA Mock Munch: Suh Consensus choice, Bradford leads to Redskins

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

The Rams are a team I could see actually taking Colt in the 2nd round. Bradford's certainly a possibility though

I could see them trading for Vick though and drafting Colt to be their guy in 2011/12

With Vick at QB it would be 2011 at the latest.

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

ZOMG *(#%849574807543 MOCKS MUCHIFEID IN A PARTICAL PROTON ACCELERATOR!!!! ZOMG ITZ A SAM BraDFORD'Z!!!! *SHOCKED FACE*

Sorry, just had to get that out of my system. I actually kind of appreciate the new threads because even though I hate clutter it still sucks when people don't post often and these "munch" threads seem to get people to post.

i hear ya, but for anyone to assume anything before the combines, well ass=u+me

[Paintrain]

I listened to the Kiper/McShay podcast on the draft and they talked QB for a good while. Both like Bradford but have some of the common concerns (injury, build, spread offsense) but both like him early in the 1st..

They widely differ on Clausen however, Mel has him as #6 overall prospect while McShay has him around #36. McShay simply doesn't think he's got what it takes mentally, physically or in work ethic to make it as a big time NFL QB. He thinks that Clausen has peaked and there's not much more that he can grow as a QB.

I don't know that I'd go that far but I will be surprised and disappointed if we pick him at #4.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I listened to the Kiper/McShay podcast on the draft and they talked QB for a good while. Both like Bradford but have some of the common concerns (injury, build, spread offsense) but both like him early in the 1st..

They widely differ on Clausen however, Mel has him as #6 overall prospect while McShay has him around #36. McShay simply doesn't think he's got what it takes mentally, physically or in work ethic to make it as a big time NFL QB. He thinks that Clausen has peaked and there's not much more that he can grow as a QB.

I don't know that I'd go that far but I will be surprised and disappointed if we pick him at #4.

Ok, seriously, whats the deal with this? Bradford put up great numbers in a pro style offense as well. Heck with his numbers that year he still would have been a top 10 pick easily. I mean are they concerned that the spread offense has made him rusty or what?

[Son Of Man]

I would be estatic with the Charles Brown/Colt McCoy scenario. They are both a position of need. As far as Brown, it's hard to go wrong with a USC lineman. And with McCoy, as much as we can all give our opinons on his physical tools, there are a few things that all the experts agree on: His work ethic, leadership skills, pristine image, career completion percentage, toughness (one hit by a 300 lb lineman to his throwing shoulder doesn't make him a pussy after enduring all of last season behind his porous offensive line), ability to scramble, career starts, record wins, and raw emotion for the game. I will go on the record and say he will be a franchise signal caller due to his immense work ethic alone. People are knocking McCoy this year for alot of the reasons they knocked Brees coming out of college. Most experts would agree with the makings of a good QB, in this order:

1-Work ethic
2-Accuracy
3-Leadership skills
4-Quick release
5-Durability
6-Arm Strength

Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Tony Romo & Matt Hasselbeck are 4 current QB's I can name who fit this mold. Looking at all time greats, Joe Montana comes to mind when looking at the list above (I am not making McCoy/Montana comparisions). All I'm sayingis this guy has all the intangibles you could ask for and adequate physical tools in order to be groomed as a franchise signal caller. I would love to have him in the B&G and hope we get him in the 2nd!

[Dirtbag59]

McCoy also has four years of starting experience under his belt at a very prestigious program. Thats rare and usually serves as a plus for any QB entering the NFL.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

Ok, seriously, whats the deal with this? Bradford put up great numbers in a pro style offense as well. Heck with his numbers that year he still would have been a top 10 pick easily. I mean are they concerned that the spread offense has made him rusty or what?

imo the problem with taking a spread offense-shotgun qb is that there field of vision is different. in the shotgun, the ball is hiked and the qb has the ball looking down field before the d lineman really get out of there stance.

under center, the qb has to use his footwork to quickly drop back 3 to 7 steps before really getting a look at the field. and the time the qb takes to step back then plant gives the D more time to close in.

that shotgun offense can work in college but not in the nfl where you cant limit your running game to that degree. everytime bradford was under center, it was to play action or run the ball (atleast the 100 plus snaps ive seen him take). you just cant limit your ability to keep the opposing D off balance in trying to figure out if you are gonna run or pass by going shotgun offense.

i dont have a problem with bradford, claussen, okung, suh, trading back etc . . . but there is a good reason why one of the knocks on bradford is that he ran a spread shotgun offense with a great O line.

just watching claussen v bradford (yeah i know highlight reels, etc) you can see claussen dealing with plays at ND that he will see in the NFL. under center, using his footwork to drop back while surveying the field, planting his feet, guys closing in on him, having to make quick decisions and tight throws.

with bradford, its hard for me to get a feel for him since hes always in shotgun, gets to survey the field with no pressure right at the snap, after the ball is snapped his great o line gives him alot of room, he doesnt have to worry about pressure, then he throws an accurate pass to a wide open guy. im exagerating alil, im sure bradford dis get sacked and pressured at times but not like claussen imo. claussen had to deal with a crappy ND team with his o line nowehere near bradfords and he had to do it under center, maintiaing his footwork dropping back while surveyring the field.

also, i keep hearing claussen made his own reads of the D where bradford had all the mental aspects of reading a D called into him from the sideline.

just seems claussen has already seen and dealt with what he will see in the nfl week in week out. whereas bradford is going to learn quickly that playing qb at ok was cupcake compared to the nfl.

this isnt to say bradford wont learn quickly or wont be the better nfl qb. i know scouts have said bradford played in a pro style offense in '07 but all the videos i watched from that year show alot of shotgun with some under center passes mixed in there.



lol you can tell im at work.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

with bradford, its hard for me to get a feel for him since hes always in shotgun, gets to survey the field with no pressure right at the snap, after the ball is snapped his great o line gives him alot of room, he doesnt have to worry about pressure, then he throws an accurate pass to a wide open guy. im exagerating alil, im sure bradford dis get sacked and pressured at times but not like claussen imo. claussen had to deal with a crappy ND team with his o line nowehere near bradfords and he had to do it under center, maintiaing his footwork dropping back while surveyring the field.

Here you go. Footage of Bradford under center.

[redskins202]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

SS, I've said before that if Bradford falls to #4, we may have some suitors to trade down and get more picks. Do you think the same may happen if Bradford is gone and Clausen is there at #4?

Yes ....he is maybe better than Bradford if anything. both are comparable I think the difference is Bradford more leadership and maturity and accuracy vs Clausen better mobility, quicker throw on and in the throw, great fade throws, HUGE STUDYING RAT.


Both are worth a 4th round pick. Okung is an overrated OT and I wouldn't pick him if my life depend on it, he gets killed against big bull rushing DE's.

Trent Cole-Justin Tuck- Dware would chew him up.

[over the mountain]

shoot, i already watched that clip buddy. i saw a FEW passes from under center by bradford in that video of the miami game.

i dont include handoffs and playactions under center as passing from under center.

after you posted that vid, i went and tried to find other videos of him from '07 with very limited success. seems the only vids i could find are just one game highlights (like this one) were you have to watch a whole lot of plays and bradford throwing the ball is roughly 1 play out of 10 i gotta watch.

i would love to see or find some better footage from bradford in '07, i stopped looking but maybe you know some better sources than youtube. if so, i would love to take a look.

dirt - do you agree, disagree or in some way agree with my take on why a shotgun qb in college makes it harder to evaluate and predict how that qb will play in the nfl?

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by redskins202

Yes ....he is maybe better than Bradford if anything. both are comparable I think the difference is Bradford more leadership and maturity and accuracy vs Clausen better mobility, quicker throw on and in the throw, great fade throws, HUGE STUDYING RAT.


Both are worth a 4th round pick. Okung is an overrated OT and I wouldn't pick him if my life depend on it, he gets killed against big bull rushing DE's.

Trent Cole-Justin Tuck- Dware would chew him up.

If anything Okung is becoming underrated at this point. The only overrated tackle that I see right now is Anthony Davis. As soon as I here that a guy is given a first round grade and it's based mainly on upside rather then production I see a HUGE red flag. Upside is why the Bills select Aaron Maybin instead of Brian Orakpo.

Upside is why Heyward-Bey gets selected ahead of Crabtree and why some team is going to be very disapointed when they select Jason Piere-Paul (DE USF) with his whooping 6 sacks but amazing edge speed.

If you can't produce at the collegiate level then you shouldn't be considered a first round pick thanks to measureables. Save the non-productive superfreaks for round 3 and beyond.

By the way pet peeve of mine but it's a 4th overall pick not a 4th round pick. Otherwise the NFL draft would be 256 rounds.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

dirt - do you agree, disagree or in some way agree with my take on why a shotgun qb in college makes it harder to evaluate and predict how that qb will play in the nfl?

Not at all. I mean in the end they're same set up and pass but the difference in mechanics and history proves that it can be a detriment, and I would be much more worried about Bradford if he didn't have that under center experience but fortunately he does.

Still I mean Joe Flacco proved that shotgun QB's can be effective in the NFL against all odds, especially considering he played against FCS competition.

[redskins202]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

If anything Okung is becoming underrated at this point. The only overrated tackle that I see right now is Anthony Davis. As soon as I here that a guy is given a first round grade and it's based mainly on upside rather then production I see a HUGE red flag. Upside is why the Bills select Aaron Maybin instead of Brian Orakpo.

Upside is why Heyward-Bey gets selected ahead of Crabtree and why some team is going to be very disapointed when they select Jason Piere-Paul (DE USF) with his whooping 6 sacks but amazing edge speed.

If you can't produce at the collegiate level then you shouldn't be considered a first round pick thanks to measureables. Save the non-productive superfreaks for round 3 and beyond.

By the way pet peeve of mine but it's a 4th overall pick not a 4th round pick. Otherwise the NFL draft would be 256 rounds.

Okung would have never been taken or thought of this high in last years draft. Only reason why skins fans wan't Okung is to basically keep jason Candle and hope that it relives the 80's again. Thats not the case.

Okung isn't that good at all and he's been hyped up since our season was about to finish. Neither less we will draft Bradford or Clausen so I wouldn't worry about the OL. Im sure will find a way to build it.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by redskins202

Okung would have never been taken or thought of this high in last years draft. Only reason why skins fans wan't Okung is to basically keep jason Candle and hope that it relives the 80's again. Thats not the case.

Okung isn't that good at all and he's been hyped up since our season was about to finish. Neither less we will draft Bradford or Clausen so I wouldn't worry about the OL. Im sure will find a way to build it.

Keep in mind I definetely want to draft either Clausen or Bradford this year. Especially since next year is limited to the semi-productive genetic freaks in Mallet, Locker, and Prior, none of whom completed 60% of their passes this year which isn't exactly great for a coach that says he wants an acucrate QB.

Besides even if they do improve we're going to have to trade up to get them and personally I see none of them being better then Clausen or Bradford.

With all that said Okung is flat out dominant. If you don't believe me see for yourself. He's easily the most complete tackle prospect I've seen in a long time, maybe Jake Long was a little better but not by much.

[redskins202]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

Keep in mind I definetely want to draft either Clausen or Bradford this year. Especially since next year is limited to the semi-productive genetic freaks in Mallet, Locker, and Prior, none of whom completed 60% of their passes this year which isn't exactly great for a coach that says he wants an acucrate QB.

Besides even if they do improve we're going to have to trade up to get them and personally I see none of them being better then Clausen or Bradford.

With all that said Okung is flat out dominant. If you don't believe me see for yourself. He's easily the most complete tackle prospect I've seen in a long time, maybe Jake Long was a little better but not by much.

I agree with your QB statement . But the thing about Okung is the reports said put him up against good big rushing DE's he'l get dominated. But the combine isn't to far away so will see.