Congratulations Joe Gibbs.

SmootSmack · 12-06-2004, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins_P

speaking of congratulating Joe Gibbs, our friend Len Pastabelly was nice enough to mention good ol Gibbie (we all know Zackmills

was really Pasquarelli) on his column today...

"Congratulations, and, yeah, I'm being sarcastic, to the Redskins for finally scoring more than 18 (points). Maybe (Joe) Gibbs will realize that he should have gone to (quarterback Patrick) Ramsey a lot earlier in the season, huh?"

Sad to say but in a way he's right about going with Ramsey earlier...

That was in Lenny P's article but that wasn't his line. He was referring to "Comments on the weekend's games from an AFC personnel director, an AFC pro scout and a retired coach"

Daseal · 12-07-2004, 12:31 AM

First of all, we often haven't given a 4WR set a chance, meaning we have no idea if it would work. It's on Gibbs if the receivers aren't catching it to put a McCants or a Jacobs in to cause a spark. Light a fire under Gardner and Coles. Gibbs also hasn't given them a ton of chances to go downfield and try for the ball. I'm not saying go for the homerun, but a 7-14 yard pass can really help. Especially if it's over the middle we know Ramsey can hit that fairly consistantly, because he did it last year. The fact is the safeties aren't going anywhere when we throw 20 screen passes in one game.

I love how everyone said OH PLAYCALLING IS AWFUL just weeks ago, yet I'm the only person brave enough to stand by my statement there. Last week, playcalling was great, I've admitted that and that's the reason for this thread. However, before that I feel most of the blame went on Gibbs. Why do you blame Spurrier for the line not blocking? I mean, had they executed Ramsey would have had plenty of time? Right? Oh? That argument doesn't make sense? Hrm. Why not?

Multiple WR sets were instrumental in our win over the Giants, and I feel they could have helped us win in previous weeks. I don't want it every down, I want a nice balance, 8 out of 10 balls our WRs were catching, so I don't buy that whole they couldn't catch a cold type attitude. Rod dropped some easy ones, but he's made the most spectacular and some clutch catches on our team.

JoeRedskin · 12-07-2004, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

Multiple WR sets were instrumental in our win over the Giants, and I feel they could have helped us win in previous weeks. I don't want it every down, I want a nice balance, 8 out of 10 balls our WRs were catching, so I don't buy that whole they couldn't catch a cold type attitude. Rod dropped some easy ones, but he's made the most spectacular and some clutch catches on our team.

Instrumental in our win was a quarterback who could throw the ball 10 yards down the field faster then if it had been sent by the post office.

Redskins_P · 12-07-2004, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smootsmack

That was in Lenny P's article but that wasn't his line. He was referring to "Comments on the weekend's games from an AFC personnel director, an AFC pro scout and a retired coach"

Oh my bad.....still sounds like something he would say though..

skinsguy · 12-07-2004, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

I love how everyone said OH PLAYCALLING IS AWFUL just weeks ago, yet I'm the only person brave enough to stand by my statement there. Last week, playcalling was great, I've admitted that and that's the reason for this thread. However, before that I feel most of the blame went on Gibbs. Why do you blame Spurrier for the line not blocking? I mean, had they executed Ramsey would have had plenty of time? Right? Oh? That argument doesn't make sense? Hrm. Why not?

Multiple WR sets were instrumental in our win over the Giants, and I feel they could have helped us win in previous weeks. I don't want it every down, I want a nice balance, 8 out of 10 balls our WRs were catching, so I don't buy that whole they couldn't catch a cold type attitude. Rod dropped some easy ones, but he's made the most spectacular and some clutch catches on our team.

Well, I for one never said that the play calling in recent weeks was awful, I actually defended the playcalling, so that argument doesn't apply. If you stick by your opinion that the play calling has been bad then that is your perogative. Would've, could've, should've's about last season doesn't mean a hill of beans for this season. Plain and simple, Steve Spurrier couldn't cut it in the NFL and he quit. He admitted he wasn't ready for the NFL and doesn't want to come back. His system failed. HOWEVER, I did back Steve Spurrier and his offense while he was in Washington. I kept positive and felt at the time that maybe his system wasn't THAT bad...we just needed to change a couple things...add tight ends for pass protection for one thing. BUT, he wasn't willing to see it through and thereby conceding that his system doesn't work in the NFL.

I back Joe Gibbs and what he's doing for this team completely, because he's coached at this level and has been successful at this level before. I back him because of his dedication to the team, the respect that the players have given him and the respect he's given back to the players. His team believes in him and have bought into Gibbs' philosophy and its starting to payoff.

We haven't been explosive or powerful on offense because we've had to see what works and what doesn't. We have had to work through inconsistancy, injuries, and a tough schedule. The plays that were in the Giants game are plays that we have seen before. The only difference is, the passing was accurate and the receivers were making the catches. In recent weeks we have seen the development of Ladell Betts into a pretty good running back. We're just now finding out who can make the plays and who's out there for the paycheck.

I dont' agree with everything Gibbs has done this season. I felt we needed to go with Patrick Ramsey earlier in the season...however at least we know that if Ramsey gets into a slump or has a couple bad games, he's not going to get yanked!

Whether you agree with this or not really doesn't matter much to me, but this system has developed slower than expected and we've had some setbacks...BUT it is starting to develop and we're starting to see how this offense can be successful when the parts execute as expected. With this fact, THEN we can mix in more deep threat plays. Believe or not, Gibbs pays attention to every detail and there are reasons why we see some plays more than others...but believe or not, this is the NFL this isn't Madden football for the playstation.

Daseal · 12-07-2004, 07:58 PM

I guess Bellicheck's system doesn't work in the NFL either? I mean, he did worse in Cleveland than Spurrier did in Washington. Right? I think it's impossible to say if someone's system works or not without giving them proper time to implement it. I was equally mad with Spurrier at times last year as I am now, but like I've said all along every coach gets 3 years in my book. Does this mean I'm not allowed to criticize them for three years? Don't think so. Joe Gibbs had called the most conservative and timid games I think I have ever seen in the NFL and didn't have the balls to send it downfield at all. You cannot tell me that his playcalling before recent was timid and practically horrible.

If you look at my posts you'll see that I've said multiple times I think he'll turn it around. Not just in this thread but multiple others. You can also find me saying that it doesn't matter what I say about him because he's his own toughest critic. There's no doubt that the players respect him, but as Ive said before I haven't ever questioned that aspect of Joe GIbbs.

We've had to see what works and what doesn't eh? Did it take anyone on this board 8 weeks to realize Brunell doesn't work? Once we zoneblocked and started breaking off gains of 6-8 yards seemingly every play against a good front 4 in the Lions game then abandonned it next game fall in that category? Does abandoning the pass ever going to improve it? Goal line playcalling where we run three times up the middle and kick a field goal is not good playcalling. Sorry. We don't seem to have the ability to run it right up the gut in the redzone, we should try once, but never three times. We have seen many of the plays in the Giants game, the important thing about playcalling is the order they come in. Michael Wilbon, one of my favorite sports writter, has spent time in locker rooms. He said early in the season other teams knew what Joe Gibbs was doing, that's NOT good playcalling. Ladell Betts has always been a good runner, he's just gotten injured after week two. I still think he's going to be traded for a late round pick, but that's just my guess.

I agree with the last two paragraphs except I believe that we need to mix deep threat plays in even when we aren't completing them. At least it will make the coordinator think that only one of those could cause some real damage. One deep ball being caught is all it would take. It's not like Portis can run effectively with 9 guys in the box anyhow.

Skinsguy, an added bonus. You've been somewhat rude this entire time and completely unrelenting to concede your point at all. I started this thread saying that Joe Gibbs did a great job this week, and I admitted that he did an amazing job and said hope he can keep it up. You keep referring to Madden and other things. No one on this board is a coach, including you. Madden will probably be the closest anyone comes. As a fan, I have the right and ability to say what I feel the problem with the team is. If you take that away from fans all the Monday morning talk gets really old. Now, I'm not alone in my criticism of Gibbs' playcalling. The balance and timing of his plays this week were what won the game, not the plays themselves. I feel that helped, but he had balance which he's kind of avoided. He said we had to abandon the run getting down by 10 points in the first half once. 10 points is not exactly a lot of points. Even Greg Williams has shown frustration on the sidelines with the way Gibbs has managed a game. I guess he's too used to playing his madden and doesn't know football from his ass in the wall. Also, Portis and Ramsey talked to Gibbs about putting in more passing plays, they said it would help both of them be more successfull. That has to say something too.

JoeRedskin: That was the 3rd week we had that QB. =p

This is my last post on this topic. It was meant to be a congratulations post and me showing some optimism for Joe Gibbs, but you've ruined that.

SmootSmack · 12-07-2004, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

No one on this board is a coach.

Actually back in the day I used to coach kids in hockey and NY_Skinsfan coaches kids in soccer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

Also, Portis and Ramsey talked to Gibbs about putting in more passing plays, they said it would help both of them be more successfull. That has to say something too.

Possibly, but according to today's Washington Post: "The Redskins (4-8) are 4-0 when Portis gets 100 yards or more; they are undefeated when running plays outnumber passing plays"

skinsguy · 12-07-2004, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

Skinsguy, an added bonus. You've been somewhat rude this entire time and completely unrelenting to concede your point at all.

Thanks I'll take that as a compliment!

And as an added bonus for you...don't talk about not being able to provide your point of view while asking someone to concede theirs. Of course I'm going to be unrelenting on my point of view. I happen to think I'm absolutely right! I could be, I may not be...and you've been just as guilty. But ya know, I don't care. I'm sure you'll have people who agree with you (well alot of the youngins') I'm sure I might have at least one to agree with me....and if they don't, that's okay to! But, instead of wasting time being critical of the team, I'm going to just sit back and enjoy having the opportunity to watch them on television win or lose.

SmootSmack · 12-08-2004, 01:57 PM

Speaking of predictable playcalling...

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...p-222564c.html

Quote:

With the Giants sliding into oblivion for the second straight season, it sure looks like (Offensive Coordinator John) Hufnagel is being set up as the first scapegoat of the season. Tight end Jeremy Shockey thinks his red-zone play calling is predictable. Barber called his offensive scheme "routine." Amani Toomer said it sure seemed like the Redskins defense knew what was coming on Sunday. Several other offensive players agree.

SmootSmack · 12-08-2004, 02:47 PM

From NFL.com's Tuesday Morning Quarterback: http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/7973142

Quote:

To start his return season, Professor Dumbledore (Joe Gibbs) had the Redskins run the same plays as in the team's 1980s golden years. In the opener against City of Tampa, rushing plays involved lots of pulls and traps; the old counter-deuce and counter-trey, where two or three offside linemen pulled in unison, resurfaced. In the opener, Clinton Portis ran for 148 yards and Washington won. But then the Skins lost and Portis looked blah in Week 2. The Redskins abandoned their old golden-days plays and went to the sort of quick cut-blocks that Portis ran behind at Denver. Week in, week out, the whole team has looked blah using rushing actions that aren't the favorites of Gibbs and his braintrust. Sunday, the Redskins returned to their old system -- lots of wide plays with line pulls, including the counter-trey, and Portis again ran for 148 yards in a Washington win. Coach Gibbs, just use your old system! Nobody could stop it 20 years ago, and rest assured, players haven't gotten any smarter since then.

MTK · 12-08-2004, 02:51 PM

I've been watching the Skins-Giants game bit by bit all week and I definitely noticed more traditional Gibbs-type running plays.

Even one of my buddies who's a Dolphins fan said he thought it looked a lot like the Skins of old in that game.

skinsguy · 12-08-2004, 02:58 PM

Even though I completely agree with the article I think until we beat a good playoff team (like the Eagles) soundly, people won't give us credit nor admit this IS mostly the odd system.

12-07-2004, 12:31 AM	#32
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	First of all, we often haven't given a 4WR set a chance, meaning we have no idea if it would work. It's on Gibbs if the receivers aren't catching it to put a McCants or a Jacobs in to cause a spark. Light a fire under Gardner and Coles. Gibbs also hasn't given them a ton of chances to go downfield and try for the ball. I'm not saying go for the homerun, but a 7-14 yard pass can really help. Especially if it's over the middle we know Ramsey can hit that fairly consistantly, because he did it last year. The fact is the safeties aren't going anywhere when we throw 20 screen passes in one game. I love how everyone said OH PLAYCALLING IS AWFUL just weeks ago, yet I'm the only person brave enough to stand by my statement there. Last week, playcalling was great, I've admitted that and that's the reason for this thread. However, before that I feel most of the blame went on Gibbs. Why do you blame Spurrier for the line not blocking? I mean, had they executed Ramsey would have had plenty of time? Right? Oh? That argument doesn't make sense? Hrm. Why not? Multiple WR sets were instrumental in our win over the Giants, and I feel they could have helped us win in previous weeks. I don't want it every down, I want a nice balance, 8 out of 10 balls our WRs were catching, so I don't buy that whole they couldn't catch a cold type attitude. Rod dropped some easy ones, but he's made the most spectacular and some clutch catches on our team.

12-07-2004, 07:58 PM	#36
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	I guess Bellicheck's system doesn't work in the NFL either? I mean, he did worse in Cleveland than Spurrier did in Washington. Right? I think it's impossible to say if someone's system works or not without giving them proper time to implement it. I was equally mad with Spurrier at times last year as I am now, but like I've said all along every coach gets 3 years in my book. Does this mean I'm not allowed to criticize them for three years? Don't think so. Joe Gibbs had called the most conservative and timid games I think I have ever seen in the NFL and didn't have the balls to send it downfield at all. You cannot tell me that his playcalling before recent was timid and practically horrible. If you look at my posts you'll see that I've said multiple times I think he'll turn it around. Not just in this thread but multiple others. You can also find me saying that it doesn't matter what I say about him because he's his own toughest critic. There's no doubt that the players respect him, but as Ive said before I haven't ever questioned that aspect of Joe GIbbs. We've had to see what works and what doesn't eh? Did it take anyone on this board 8 weeks to realize Brunell doesn't work? Once we zoneblocked and started breaking off gains of 6-8 yards seemingly every play against a good front 4 in the Lions game then abandonned it next game fall in that category? Does abandoning the pass ever going to improve it? Goal line playcalling where we run three times up the middle and kick a field goal is not good playcalling. Sorry. We don't seem to have the ability to run it right up the gut in the redzone, we should try once, but never three times. We have seen many of the plays in the Giants game, the important thing about playcalling is the order they come in. Michael Wilbon, one of my favorite sports writter, has spent time in locker rooms. He said early in the season other teams knew what Joe Gibbs was doing, that's NOT good playcalling. Ladell Betts has always been a good runner, he's just gotten injured after week two. I still think he's going to be traded for a late round pick, but that's just my guess. I agree with the last two paragraphs except I believe that we need to mix deep threat plays in even when we aren't completing them. At least it will make the coordinator think that only one of those could cause some real damage. One deep ball being caught is all it would take. It's not like Portis can run effectively with 9 guys in the box anyhow. Skinsguy, an added bonus. You've been somewhat rude this entire time and completely unrelenting to concede your point at all. I started this thread saying that Joe Gibbs did a great job this week, and I admitted that he did an amazing job and said hope he can keep it up. You keep referring to Madden and other things. No one on this board is a coach, including you. Madden will probably be the closest anyone comes. As a fan, I have the right and ability to say what I feel the problem with the team is. If you take that away from fans all the Monday morning talk gets really old. Now, I'm not alone in my criticism of Gibbs' playcalling. The balance and timing of his plays this week were what won the game, not the plays themselves. I feel that helped, but he had balance which he's kind of avoided. He said we had to abandon the run getting down by 10 points in the first half once. 10 points is not exactly a lot of points. Even Greg Williams has shown frustration on the sidelines with the way Gibbs has managed a game. I guess he's too used to playing his madden and doesn't know football from his ass in the wall. Also, Portis and Ramsey talked to Gibbs about putting in more passing plays, they said it would help both of them be more successfull. That has to say something too. JoeRedskin: That was the 3rd week we had that QB. =p This is my last post on this topic. It was meant to be a congratulations post and me showing some optimism for Joe Gibbs, but you've ruined that.

12-08-2004, 02:51 PM	#41
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,569	I've been watching the Skins-Giants game bit by bit all week and I definitely noticed more traditional Gibbs-type running plays. Even one of my buddies who's a Dolphins fan said he thought it looked a lot like the Skins of old in that game.

12-08-2004, 02:58 PM	#42
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Even though I completely agree with the article I think until we beat a good playoff team (like the Eagles) soundly, people won't give us credit nor admit this IS mostly the odd system.

Congratulations Joe Gibbs.

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