Was a Superbowl Flyover Worth the $

[CRedskinsRule]

I don't think you can throw interest on the debt into the mix of what should be cut, because we can't cut that. That has to be paid.

So, Defense($890 billion), SS($730 billion), and Medicare/Medicaid($490 billion) are where we could really make a HUGE dent in the deficit/debt. And, I know you and I disagree, but Defense is the one area where we could literally stop all but the basics, ie freeze r & d, stop all but bare necessity recruiting (since the 450,000 flyover is the impetus for this conversation), and reduce oversea tours for Europe, and let the EU take up it's own defense. Without harming one US citizen, or putting the country in immediate risk, we could easily make a major dent in the deficit/debt. Put in provisions that re-fund R&D once we hit certain set points, and maybe put in automatic across the board cuts in Medicare/Medicaid/SS if deficit targets aren't reached. Of course, if you cut SS, medicare, medicaid, that is hurting fellow citizens, I agree it needs to be done, but I go back to the fact that we outspend all the other nations combined in defense spending.

What if we simply agreed to set our Defense spending to whatever the top 2 potential adversaries are spending +10%.

[CRedskinsRule]

Chinese defense budget is listed at $60billion, and the Russian defense budget is listed at $75 billion, so maybe we set our defense spending at 2 times the sum of China and Russia. or $270 billion. That would be a savings of $620 Billion,or nearly half the deficit.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Chinese defense budget is listed at $60billion, and the Russian defense budget is listed at $75 billion, so maybe we set our defense spending at 2 times the sum of China and Russia. or $270 billion. That would be a savings of $620 Billion,or nearly half the deficit.

Keep in mind the Chinese and Russian military folks aren't getting paid anywhere near their US counterparts. I would love to see their budget numbers if their personnel were paid at even 50% what ours are. Keep in mind the US military expenditures are roughly as follows:

Personnel: $ 138B (up 2.6% from FY '10)
Operations & Maint: $ 200B (up 8.5% from FY '10)
Family Housing: $ 1.8B (down 19% from FY '10)

MILCON: $ 16.9B (down 20% from FY '10)
R & D: $ 76.1 (down 5% from FY '10)
Procurement: $ 112B (up 8% from FY '10)

Iraq & Afghanistan: Approx $ 159B, can we scale back there. At this point probably yes. But Obama could make that happen on his own, and he hasn't shown much desire to do that.

You mention cutting the defense budget wouldn't hurt a single US citizen, how about the US citizens that serve in the military. I would argue that fixing SS/Medicare/Medicaid would be far less painful to its recipients than involuntarily separating a large chunk of the military personnel or forcing existing personnel to work with equipment that is not properly maintained.

We can't just shut our bases overseas, how will we project force if necessary? What message would this send to our allies around the world?

On the National Debt, if we stop defecit spending the debt goes down and so does the interest on the debt. And we better get moving on that before interest rates start creeping back up.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Keep in mind the Chinese and Russian military folks aren't getting paid anywhere near their US counterparts. I would love to see their budget numbers if their personnel were paid at even 50% what ours are. Keep in mind the US military expenditures are roughly as follows:

Personnel: $ 138B (up 2.6% from FY '10)
Operations & Maint: $ 200B (up 8.5% from FY '10)
Family Housing: $ 1.8B (down 19% from FY '10)

MILCON: $ 16.9B (down 20% from FY '10)
R & D: $ 76.1 (down 5% from FY '10)
Procurement: $ 112B (up 8% from FY '10)

Iraq & Afghanistan: Approx $ 159B, can we scale back there. At this point probably yes. But Obama could make that happen on his own, and he hasn't shown much desire to do that.

You mention cutting the defense budget wouldn't hurt a single US citizen, how about the US citizens that serve in the military. I would argue that fixing SS/Medicare/Medicaid would be far less painful to its recipients than involuntarily separating a large chunk of the military personnel or forcing existing personnel to work with equipment that is not properly maintained.

We can't just shut our bases overseas, how will we project force if necessary? What message would this send to our allies around the world?

On the National Debt, if we stop defecit spending the debt goes down and so does the interest on the debt. And we better get moving on that before interest rates start creeping back up.

I guess I thought that it would be clear I wasn't really suggesting an immediate 670 Billion dollar reduction in defense spending, but I was trying to show that our expenditures in defense are far above the rest of the world's. If we were to cut that deep that fast yes the pain would be unbearable for the economy, as well as world stability. We can though take a step back, take a breath and put a hold on R&D, look at other ways to cut back. As we should with Medicare/Medicaid/SS.

This country is going to be in for a major shock if we think we can spend 1Trillion more than we take in, and if we don't act responsibly now, even the military will take the types of hits you say it can't afford.

[Tiggwin]

(army 545 million and the marines spend 1 billion).

Saden1 where did you get that information? I have to say I am a bit shocked to see someone say that the Marines, who have a history of doing more with less, would out spend the Army two times just for advertising. Also the Marines are the "Few and the Proud" because we are the smallest of all four branches of service. Not everyone can be a Marine.. Also their numbers have stayed steady at 212,000 since 2004. My son went to the recruiting office in August of 2009 to enlist. He spent 4 yrs Marine Corps option ROTC at his high school. They told him then because of being over filled that he had to wait until Feb. 2010 to go to MEPS (Military Enlistment Processing Station- for those who didnt know) and it was June 2010 before he would have been allowed to go to Parris Island. He was eventually disqualified because of a corrective knee surgery he had in 2006 that is/was by all accounts healed 100%. The boy runs 6 to 7 minute miles on a regular basis but wasnt allowed to join.. All that said it doesnt sound like the Marines are overly pressed to recruit anyone..

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Tiggwin

(army 545 million and the marines spend 1 billion).

Saden1 where did you get that information? I have to say I am a bit shocked to see someone say that the Marines, who have a history of doing more with less, would out spend the Army two times just for advertising. Also the Marines are the "Few and the Proud" because we are the smallest of all four branches of service. Not everyone can be a Marine.. Also their numbers have stayed steady at 212,000 since 2004. My son went to the recruiting office in August of 2009 to enlist. He spent 4 yrs Marine Corps option ROTC at his high school. They told him then because of being over filled that he had to wait until Feb. 2010 to go to MEPS (Military Enlistment Processing Station- for those who didnt know) and it was June 2010 before he would have been allowed to go to Parris Island. He was eventually disqualified because of a corrective knee surgery he had in 2006 that is/was by all accounts healed 100%. The boy runs 6 to 7 minute miles on a regular basis but wasnt allowed to join.. All that said it doesnt sound like the Marines are overly pressed to recruit anyone..

I think USMC recuiting budget is approximately $ 290M, not sure on the Army. saden may have been including re-enlistment bonus numbers in the USMC or something like that.

[Tiggwin]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I think USMC recuiting budget is approximately $ 290M, not sure on the Army. saden may have been including re-enlistment bonus numbers in the USMC or something like that.

Well that sounds a little more like the Marine Corps I was in but still thats high when they arent letting kids who do enlist even go to basic training for about 10 months after they enlist. When I joined in 1987 I enlisted in June and was through MEPS and into Boot Camp by August 13th. Didnt take barely more than 2 months... now the time it takes to get in is 5 times that amount? Why spend more money...

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Tiggwin

(army 545 million and the marines spend 1 billion).

Saden1 where did you get that information? I have to say I am a bit shocked to see someone say that the Marines, who have a history of doing more with less, would out spend the Army two times just for advertising. Also the Marines are the "Few and the Proud" because we are the smallest of all four branches of service. Not everyone can be a Marine.. Also their numbers have stayed steady at 212,000 since 2004. My son went to the recruiting office in August of 2009 to enlist. He spent 4 yrs Marine Corps option ROTC at his high school. They told him then because of being over filled that he had to wait until Feb. 2010 to go to MEPS (Military Enlistment Processing Station- for those who didnt know) and it was June 2010 before he would have been allowed to go to Parris Island. He was eventually disqualified because of a corrective knee surgery he had in 2006 that is/was by all accounts healed 100%. The boy runs 6 to 7 minute miles on a regular basis but wasnt allowed to join.. All that said it doesnt sound like the Marines are overly pressed to recruit anyone..

It's from the 2011 budget proposed by Obama and signed off on by congress. As for marines doing more with less, well, that's just a fantastic marketing slogan. Let's get real, they are well equipped, well trained, and well supported...more so than any other marine force on the planet.

[Tiggwin]

Originally Posted by saden1

It's from the 2011 budget proposed by Obama and signed off on by congress. As for marines doing more with less, well, that's just a fantastic marketing slogan. Let's get real, they are well equipped, well trained, and well supported...more so than any other marine force on the planet.

Well Saden1 I wouldnt put a whole lotta faith in what I read of "Obama's budget proposal"... Hell if thats the case I bet $10 to a doughnut the additional spending is from HMX 1 (Marine One... Presidential Helo) being overused to take the Prez to the friggin golf course..

As for the Marines doing more with less.. its more than a slogan.... I can see you dont know much about the Military in the way of their traditions.. If you did youd know that when it comes to the "Luxuries" and "Perks" of military life... the Marine Corps always gets the shit end of the stick.. I was on kitchen duty back in 1989 (had to pull a 30 day rotation)... Staff Sgt told me to go to the freezer and get "the meat" on the shelf.. I went to get it and stamped clear as day on the side of the box in big bold letters were the words... 'REJECTED BY THE UNITED STATES ARMY"

Marines are well trained that is true... but we are trained with less... in Iraq when all this hoopla was being raised about "body armor"... the Marines were the last to recieve any. The Army got theirs first... Also the Marine Corps is the smallest of all four branches of the military so it is inherent in our nature to "do more with less" Our numbers are less than half that of the Army but we maintain up to 66% of our forces deployed at all times... to and including peace time..

Now when you compare us to other Marine Forces around the world... sure you are correct. We are better trained, better equipped and better supported.. My comparison was to that of other "US" branches of the military. If think for a second that we get all of the same luxuries, perks and amenities as the Army, Air Force, or Navy... you are sadly sadly misinformed...

[Tiggwin]

I would argue that fixing SS/Medicare/Medicaid....

Slinging Sammy I agree and I think I have a perfect as well as simple solution to fixing at least SS and Medicare. Take all of the politicians both past and present and instead of giving them the current "Golden Parachute" retirement plan and health benefits they have... put their a$$es on Social Security and Medicare.. those programs would be fixed faster than a cat could lick his A$$ with his tail up and tongue out!! haha excuse teh colorful colloquialism but in my opinion thats a fact!!

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Tiggwin

I would argue that fixing SS/Medicare/Medicaid....

Slinging Sammy I agree and I think I have a perfect as well as simple solution to fixing at least SS and Medicare. Take all of the politicians both past and present and instead of giving them the current "Golden Parachute" retirement plan and health benefits they have... put their a$$es on Social Security and Medicare.. those programs would be fixed faster than a cat could lick his A$$ with his tail up and tongue out!! haha excuse teh colorful colloquialism but in my opinion thats a fact!!

[Monkeydad]

Much less than a trip to India with battleships.

[firstdown]

The cool thing is they probably left Va Beach around 5:30 and were back home by 7:30 and also includes doing the fly over. Man I'd love to fly in one of those jets.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by firstdown

The cool thing is they probably left Va Beach around 5:30 and were back home by 7:30 and also includes doing the fly over. Man I'd love to fly in one of those jets.

Fighter Jet Ride ? The Time of Your Life! Ride in a Fighter Jet ? Click Here!

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Fighter Jet Ride ? The Time of Your Life! Ride in a Fighter Jet ? Click Here!

Thanks for the link. I'm probably going to FL in the next year and I'm going to check that out and see what it cost.