O-line The Real Problem

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Daseal

That's fine skinsguy - but to call games like that it demands a lead or a close game. It's also very important to have a solid running game, which means working to your back's strengths!

That's true too, but I did see some counter trey plays that Portis ran just fine. We can't run Portis to the outside on every play...we have to have inside runs to keep the defense honest. Being able to have Portis run effectively on plays that call for full back leads up the middle and the counter trey plays are important to this system. That is why we need to strengthen the offensive line in the off season. We all know Portis' run style, but why have the run plays one dimensional? We can't go away from the meat and potatoes of this offense; which is ball controlled, shove it down their throats run plays. This is what wears down that front three or front four of the defense...AND this is what allows our defense to get plenty of rest between times out on the field which contributes quite a bit to their number 2 ranking right now!

[SKINSnCANES]

People have given Portis a hard time all year, and while there is some room for critique, the bottom line is that he has a solid chance to become the Redskins All Time single season rushing record holder in his first year. And that is with the crappy oline. With Jansen back, and a center we could be a great unit. I also have to beleive that Bugel will continue to mold them into a solid unit.

[Daseal]

Skinsguy: I understand we have to go up the middle, but you can count on one hand where we let him pick his hole and go this week. That's his forte and I feel we should at least go 50/50 using his speed, but keeping them honest by going inside.

Skins: No one gives Portis a hard time, he does what he's told and he's silently racked up yards, we just want to see some of that homerun threat! I also think we should leave the line alone minus center and maybe a guard to replace dockery.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Skinsguy: I understand we have to go up the middle, but you can count on one hand where we let him pick his hole and go this week. That's his forte and I feel we should at least go 50/50 using his speed, but keeping them honest by going inside.

That's what I just said? He racked up 110 yards this week...so even if running plays that are designed for Portis to pick where he wants to run are limited, Portis was still able to run effectively against a decent defense. Remember the homerun play against the Bucs WAS up the middle....

It all comes back to having better blocking up front. A team can be completely predicatable in their play calling, but if everything is executed right, they cannot be stopped. This is what was great about this offense years ago...it was just as simple and predicatable back then as it is now, yet nobody could stop it because we had a great offensive line that was awesome with pass blocking and run blocking.

[wolfeskins]

[QUOTE=Daseal]Skinsguy: I understand we have to go up the middle, but you can count on one hand where we let him pick his hole and go this week. That's his forte and I feel we should at least go 50/50 using his speed, but keeping them honest by going inside.




thats basicaly what i was saying. there's nothing wrong with bunching it up and trying to run up the middle , i just wish they would spread it out every once in a while , especially in goal line situations

[skinsguy]

[QUOTE=wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Skinsguy: I understand we have to go up the middle, but you can count on one hand where we let him pick his hole and go this week. That's his forte and I feel we should at least go 50/50 using his speed, but keeping them honest by going inside.




thats basicaly what i was saying. there's nothing wrong with bunching it up and trying to run up the middle , i just wish they would spread it out every once in a while , especially in goal line situations

Gibbs will probably never do a 4 or 5 wide receiver spread formation on the goal line....that's something you might find in a run-and-shoot offense. He might do something of that nature if its third down and goal back at the ten. 9 times out of 10, you're going to see a goal line offense that will try to run it up the middle or play action to a tight end. That's just the way Gibbs' offense works...alot of fans will be disappointed that we're not throwing the ball all over the field and making it exciting; about the only advice I have is get used to it, because Gibbs keeps things simple and it has obviously been very sucessful before.

[Daseal]

Portis averaged 3/4th of a yard less per carry than the 49ers normally give up. The 49ers aren't exacty a defensive powerhouse, their run defense is decent, but certainly not great. It was up the middle, it was the first play of the season, and we haven't seen a run up the middle like that since.

Yeah, newsflash. We don't have the hogs anymore, so that's something that needs to be worked around. How many teams now-days are predictable but still good? The Colts? Who mix it up very well and use play action tremendously? Most offenses try not to be predictable because defenses will lock them up. Sorry, but for the most part if a defense has your offense figured out then you're in trouble.

Let me ask you something. Since our defense has been so stout, they don't deserve any recognition because other offenses haven't been executing, right? Because if you flip your statement around you say the offense could be lighting up the score board with execution, does that mean we've been lucky to play poor opponents who can't execute all year?

[BrudLee]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Portis averaged 3/4th of a yard less per carry than the 49ers normally give up. The 49ers aren't exacty a defensive powerhouse, their run defense is decent, but certainly not great. It was up the middle, it was the first play of the season, and we haven't seen a run up the middle like that since.

Yeah, newsflash. We don't have the hogs anymore, so that's something that needs to be worked around. How many teams now-days are predictable but still good? The Colts? Who mix it up very well and use play action tremendously? Most offenses try not to be predictable because defenses will lock them up. Sorry, but for the most part if a defense has your offense figured out then you're in trouble.

I think the problem has been less about predictability, and more about the absence of a "home run" threat outside of Portis. Coles isn't healthy - he didn't start out healthy, and he's gotten worse. He's still the best receiver we have. The first eight games consisted of Brunell showing an inability to throw the ball downfield effectively, which made our playcalling more conservative, which made Portis more of a target.

Portis isn't without blame for his "poor" stats, either. He had a run where he wasn't finding his stride - marked by the Pittsburgh game where he could barely stay on his feet. The fact that he still has a realistic shot at 1500 yards is a testament to the organizational dedication to ball control and his own hard work.

Bottom line - if we can force teams to respect the other skill players on the field, we can expect Portis to have better opportunities for long runs.

[skinsguy]

"Yeah, newsflash. We don't have the hogs anymore,"

Hey, newsflash! We have the coaches that created the hogs...

Portis averaging 3/4th of a yard less per carry is hardly a solid point to argue.

"Let me ask you something. Since our defense has been so stout, they don't deserve any recognition because other offenses haven't been executing, right? Because if you flip your statement around you say the offense could be lighting up the score board with execution, does that mean we've been lucky to play poor opponents who can't execute all year?"

Who said the defense doesn't deserve recognition? Can you find that in any of my posts? Why are you switching the subject on our defense when this thread is about our offensive line?

[MTK]

Sometimes I can't even tell what we're arguing about

LOL

[MTK]

I think we need to go 4 wide at the goal line and pitch it around a bit.

It was a nice night in San Fran last week for some pitchin' and catchin'. Hell why not throw the ball 50 times?

Ahh the good old days!

[monk81]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I think we need to go 4 wide at the goal line and pitch it around a bit.

It was a nice night in San Fran last week for some pitchin' and catchin'. Hell why not throw the ball 50 times?

Ahh the good old days!

Oh oh......your not talking about the Spurrier days are you Matty....please NO!

[Daseal]

Skinsguy: the reason I said that about our defense. Is you say that all you have to do on offense is execute, and we're not doing that. You act as if we're playing against an invisible defense that also can't react and stuff a play. So you think all the other offenses simply couldn't execute, meaning our defense really did nothing? Or do you admit that defenses can control what an offense does?

Maybe we can pitch it around, catch it, and score three touchdowns, right? Instead of the measly two we've been scoring on uber-conservative playcalling, especially in their territory. 4th and inches with a defense like ours deep in Philly territory! DO IT!

I don't understand how people can defend uninspired and frankly bad playcalling just because it's Gibbs. I seriously doubt either of you would be condoning this type of play calling if it were another coach. Norv Turner would be limping out of press conferences after the abuse he'd take for calling that. Maybe Gibbs needs to adapt a bit, just like our former coach failed to do in situations. Defenses have it figured out, then I simply think it won't work 70% of the time.

[WashingtonWarrior]

The reason Lavar is strong is because the tightend usually lines up on the opposite side. Well thats the reason they gave. Marcus Washington handles the tight end side.... But I have to disagree with you on Portis. Not only does the boy run hard watch him when he doesnt have the ball. He blocks with a vengeance.... I mad about him not getting more passes out of the backfield, he is quick enuff toout run any linebacker.... Our line needs to do more zone blocking and trap blocking to fit portis style...WHY PAY HIM IF YOUR NOT GOING TO ADJUST YOUR OFFENSE TO HIS STYLE STOP WITH THE COUNTER TREY especially if your going to have fat ass dockery pulling.....

[WashingtonWarrior]

And as far as Gibbs playcalling.......Its very very very uneventful, boring, simple, plain.... But every now and then I see some freaky formations. The route running of the wide recievers is so stale.... ten and out, ten and in, post, fly, hook... these routes were on video games like techno bowl......... but gibbs does get more respect than ANY coach in this town I saY he needs to get to the offseason and refine his offense to fit his players and also find a new center PLEASE PS dockery lose 30 lbs atleast GO SKINS all I want for christmas is a blow out of the CowGIRLS and then lets go from there....... oh yeah OUTRAGE CORNELIUS GRIFFEN IS THE REASON WE ARE NO. 2 DEFENSE HE IS A BEAST DO YOU WATCH HIM PLAY THEY ARE DOUBLE AND TRIPLE TEAMING HIM AND HES STILL A BEAST imagine a healthy defense 3 beast griffen, LA, and Sean "The Hitman" Taylor now thats sick