Who Stays-Who Goes? (Offense)

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Here is where we differ in our interpretation of the 'plan'.
2010, see if he can win with the roster in place with a few tweaks.. Bringing in McNabb, changing to a 3-4 with many of the same pieces, minor roster modifications. Stayed with Haynesworth, Portis, Griffin, Daniels, brought in older vets to try to 'make a run' and see if he could make chicken salad from chicken ----.

2011, fix the defense and start changing the roster. Draft was primarily about the defense, free agency was almost all about the defense. He's committed to a 3-4, thinking it is the foundation for championships so he wants to build that first. Offense is secondary and no real effort (or significant money) is spent on that side of the ball. Our combined QB group makes less than any other starting QB alone. Our combined WR group has no committed money past 2013. Our RB group had 2 rookies and a pending free agent. There's nothing but flexibility to fix that side of the ball with no money or immovable roster spots.

2012, fix the offense. Free agency will be spent on WR, OL and RB. QB will be addressed in the draft. 2012 will be the beginning of the team that will define the Shanny era in DC.

That's not a plan or the plan, that's a recap of what actually happened: we changed what we're doing at the on-set of every season.

Rest assured that this offseason will not follow the same pattern last offseason did. Job security is a serious issue now and the 2011 team didn't improve as much over the 2010 disaster as the coaches were predicting. Shanahan thinks he built a 10 win team that got ravaged by injury this year. No, I'm serious. He said that. He said that today.

I think enough went right in 2011 (including that the rest of the division didn't play very well) where an aggressive offseason trying to make a run at a division title in 2012 is worth trying. The offense was perhaps better than we all expected to be. The defense ended up being adequate. Maybe not as good as they anticipated it being, but adequate.

But we need to not act like the plan all along was to totally waste two seasons replacing the window curtains before going for broke in 2012. We've been through Plan A, B, and C, and we're already passed the point where most coaches would have survived. The last three (non-Gibbs) coaches didn't survive past this point.

[GTripp0012]

The funny thing is, if you squint hard enough, you can actually see -- maybe -- where the offense (which received Jabar Gaffney and Donte Stallworth and Chris Chester), made a bigger improvement than the defense (which received a total overhaul). You could at least entertain the argument that the patient approach to improving the offense actually worked.

The offense wasn't very good still, but it had multiple 30 point efforts when the coaches stopped spiting themselves with awful playing time decisions (Beck, Torain, Cook) and uninspiring gameplans. And they turned Rex Grossman from a hilarious liability into an average player who was confident enough in himself and his teammates to make multiple good throws under duress this year. In doing so, they discovered (although I'm sure they don't see it this way) that there's nothing they can do to curb his turnover tendency.

[12thMan]

Grossman: Not only stays, but enters next season as the starting quarterback.
Beck: Gone

Gaffney, Hankeson, Paul, Moss: Stays (pencil in Justin Blackmon as the 5th WR)

Banks, Austin, Armstrong, Stallworth - Gone

Lichenstieger: stays, but he get's beat out by MoHurt.

Jamal Brown:- Definitely gone. Can't stay healthy
Sean Locklear: Gone. If you're gonna dumb tweet, at least be a baller.


We'll sign/draft a guard to beat out either Monty or Chester. Will Montgomery played in all 16 games this season. It's more difficult to unseat a center that suits up every game, knows the system and snap counts, than a serviceable guard. I think Will enters the season as the starter unless there's an injury or a stud comes along.

Royster, Helu, Hightower: Stays

D. Young: Stays. Has nice hands out of the backfield and really started to come on in the final few games.

Davis, Cooley, Paulsen: Stays
Sellers: Audi

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

That's not a plan or the plan, that's a recap of what actually happened: we changed what we're doing at the on-set of every season.

Rest assured that this offseason will not follow the same pattern last offseason did. Job security is a serious issue now and the 2011 team didn't improve as much over the 2010 disaster as the coaches were predicting. Shanahan thinks he built a 10 win team that got ravaged by injury this year. No, I'm serious. He said that. He said that today.

I think enough went right in 2011 (including that the rest of the division didn't play very well) where an aggressive offseason trying to make a run at a division title in 2012 is worth trying. The offense was perhaps better than we all expected to be. The defense ended up being adequate. Maybe not as good as they anticipated it being, but adequate.

But we need to not act like the plan all along was to totally waste two seasons replacing the window curtains before going for broke in 2012. We've been through Plan A, B, and C, and we're already passed the point where most coaches would have survived. The last three (non-Gibbs) coaches didn't survive past this point.

Yeah man, we just see it differently. At this point it is a recap but even in the recap the plan seems pretty evident to me. Draft and money all went into the defense last offseason. During the season, many of the announcers who did our games mentioned that in the production meeting Shanny said they planned to focus on the D first and this offseason was about fixing the O. Only time will tell but I see progress in roster construction and a plan in action.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I think the organization will be just fine if Grossman never took another starting snap for the Redskins. He may have to based on circumstance but not based on an expectation that he will be improved.

Also, the notion that Shanahan will not finish his contract is off base. Snyder knows he has to let a project go to completion. He's not going to derail Shanny after 3 years, even with another 10 loss seasons. Doing so just feeds into what his critics want him to do. The only way Shanny doesn't complete his contract is if he retires first.

I don't know... 3 years.. same results... longer than most management gets

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

I don't know... 3 years.. same results... longer than most management gets

I'm starting a new thread to address our roster transition to answer this..

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Grossman: Not only stays, but enters next season as the starting quarterback.
Beck: Gone

Gaffney, Hankeson, Paul, Moss: Stays (pencil in Justin Blackmon as the 5th WR)

Banks, Austin, Armstrong, Stallworth - Gone

Lichenstieger: stays, but he get's beat out by MoHurt.

Jamal Brown:- Definitely gone. Can't stay healthy
Sean Locklear: Gone. If you're gonna dumb tweet, at least be a baller.


We'll sign/draft a guard to beat out either Monty or Chester. Will Montgomery played in all 16 games this season. It's more difficult to unseat a center that suits up every game, knows the system and snap counts, than a serviceable guard. I think Will enters the season as the starter unless there's an injury or a stud comes along.

Royster, Helu, Hightower: Stays

D. Young: Stays. Has nice hands out of the backfield and really started to come on in the final few games.

Davis, Cooley, Paulsen: Stays
Sellers: Audi

I think Stallworth is staying, but agree with every thing else hear.

Also i know youre real high on Hankerson, do you know how bad his injury is? Can we expect him full speed at the start of training camp? That could play into who we start the season with at WR.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

I think Stallworth is staying, but agree with every thing else hear.

Also i know youre real high on Hankerson, do you know how bad his injury is? Can we expect him full speed at the start of training camp? That could play into who we start the season with at WR.

Shanny said yesterday in the presser that Hankerson should be 100% by April 1st and the start of the offseason program.

The one player that keeps popping up that I have the hardest time seeing on the 2012 Redskins is Moss.. He will be 33, undersized, lost explosiveness and has a multitude of drops. There has to be a younger replacement out there for him somewhere who can do the same thing he does. I just can't imagine him lining up for us in 2012.

[MTK]

Shanahan said receiver Leonard Hankerson should be fully recovered from the torn labrum in his right hip by April 1, allowing him to participate in offseason workouts. Shanahan said Hankerson only needs "rest and treatment." Hankerson did not undergo surgery.

Redskins still looking for results | Washington Examiner

[mlmpetert]

^ ^^ cool, thanks

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

I think Stallworth is staying, but agree with every thing else hear.

Also i know youre real high on Hankerson, do you know how bad his injury is? Can we expect him full speed at the start of training camp? That could play into who we start the season with at WR.

Funny you ask, I follow him on twitter and while he hasn't said anything definitively, my sense is he may be a little ahead of sked with the recovery. Again, I'm must going by his tone and the way he responds to people asking about his hip. I don't think you really know until you're out there running pass routes, cutting, changing direction and so forth.

[NC_Skins]

QB-Grossman (stay), Beck (gone)

RB-Hightower (depends on health), Helu (stay), Royster (stay) Set at RB.

FB-Young (stay), Sellers (gone)

T-Williams (stay), Smith (stay), Brown (gone), Locklear (gone), Polumbus (stay)

G-Lictenstieger (stay), Hurt (gone), Chester (stay) I believe they bring in Grubbs so solidify this position.

C-Montgomery (stay)

TE-Cooley (stay if he restructures contract and health is ok, otherwise gone), Davis (stay), Paulson (stay), Myers (gone)

WR-Moss (stay - final year), Gaffney (stay), Hankerson (stay), Armstrong (gone), Stallworth (50/50...depends on camp), Anderson (gone), Paul (stay), Austin (gone), Robinson (stay), Banks (gone)..

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

QB-Grossman (stay), Beck (gone)

RB-Hightower (depends on health), Helu (stay), Royster (stay) Set at RB.

FB-Young (stay), Sellers (gone)

T-Williams (stay), Smith (stay), Brown (gone), Locklear (gone), Polumbus (stay)

G-Lictenstieger (stay), Hurt (gone), Chester (stay) I believe they bring in Grubbs so solidify this position.

C-Montgomery (stay)

TE-Cooley (stay if he restructures contract and health is ok, otherwise gone), Davis (stay), Paulson (stay), Myers (gone)

WR-Moss (stay - final year), Gaffney (stay), Hankerson (stay), Armstrong (gone), Stallworth (50/50...depends on camp), Anderson (gone), Paul (stay), Austin (gone), Robinson (stay), Banks (gone)..

So you think the Skins will carry at least 6 wideouts? If we go with six, you have to think we'll have at least 1 or 2 new faces on the active roster and four carry overs from last season.

If we go with five: Hank, Paul, Gaffney, Moss, that leaves one more.

[Stuck in TX]

I think Grossman is an asset at the backup position, as knowing the ins and outs of the system is invaluable. He may not provide results ON the field, but off the field, and especially with a young FA or draft pick leading the team, even at 3rd string he should stay.

I think Hightower should stay, and I know I am playing with fire by saying this, but I think we are set at RB. Helu is a beast, Royester is just going to get better, and Hightower is a great spell. All three are great blockers and I would start any of the three knowing that all would get in as fresh legs

I would like to see Moss stick around to help develop young talent. I cannot see him as a #1 WR anymore but I do think if we put him in there with a viable #1 he can serve as a very good check down WR as he still has decent ball handling skills.

I am going to miss Big Mike because we are set at TE.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

So you think the Skins will carry at least 6 wideout? If we go with six, you have two think we'll have at least 1 or 2 new faces on the active roster.

If we go with five: Hank, Paul, Gaffney, Moss, that leaves one more.

We very well could go with 6 WRs. I only had 5 as "stay", and listed Stallworth as a 50/50. I should change that to a 80/20 in favor of him not being around.