Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by biffle

5. I couldn't care less if the Redskins become "playoff contenders". I want them to become "Super Bowl contenders". There's a difference. And teams that don't set their sights on titles never win them.

You (and the others) remind me of this scene.




You'll swing away blowing your chance to be a consistent winner, just so you can hit the big shot.

What happens if RGIII busts? You trade the farm again in 3 years for the next big thing? And that guy busts? You trade the farm again in 3 more years? The cycle continues until you finally hit the big one eh?...lol

There are times to take chances, and times you don't. We are in no situation to be taking many chances, much like Roy wasn't.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by biffle

1. There is no recent trade nor example from the value chart that makes your trade likely.

Eli Manning's cost to the Giants - 2004 1st, 2004 3rd, 2005 1st, 2005 5th...to move up from #4 to #1 with a difference of 1200 points. (forced trade)

Michael Vick's cost to the Falcons - 2001 1st round, 2001 3rd rounder, 2002 3rd rounder and Tim Dwight. (Chargers failed to reach contract with Vick so traded)....to move from #5 to #1 with a difference of 1,000 points.


Ryan Leaf's cost to the Chargers- 1998 1st rounder, 1998 2nd rounder, 1999 1st rounder, Eric Metcalf, Patrick Sapp....to move up from #3 to #2 with a difference of 400 points.

Jon Gruden traded to the Tampa Bay Bucs for 2 first rounders.


Two of those trades came from unusual circumstances and both by the same team. In fact, the only team that seems to trade top 5 picks is the Chargers. One was a forced trade, the other came about because they couldn't reach a deal with Vick prior to the draft. Both of those circumstances lowered the value of the pick. That and the fact that huge contracts came with rookies back then. Now that rookie contracts are affordable, those high picks mean even more now.


So with a 1,000 point difference between the #2 and #6, you have to come up with the points to make up for that.

1st- 1600 points
2nd - 520 points
3rd - 240 points
4th- 93 points
5th- 39 points
6th- 25 points
7th- 12.2 points



Even if you added all these picks you would only come up with 929.2 points. Now granted, you wouldn't want to go all Ditka and give up your total draft so you would have to bargain to keep some of this years draft while sacrificing some of next years picks.

1st, 2nd, 4th = 2,213 points You would have to include next years #1 to make up that extra 400 points and possible a later rounder. Remember now, next years picks doesn't have the value that they do in the present.

1st, 3rd,4th= 1,933 points. Would cost you next years #1 and another mid round pick to make up.


I didn't just pull that scenario from fantasy land.

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

It's not as simple as asking to choose between RGIII and Peyton. The real question is which package would you rather have?


Which would you choose?


Package A:

1) RGIII


Package B:
1) Peyton Manning (while using 3rd rounder to draft Kirk Cousins)
2) Reily Reiff -OT (1st)
3) Alfonso Denard-CB (2nd)
4) Lucas Nix -OG (4th)

5) Manti Te'o - ILB (2013 1st)
6) Orhian Johnson -SS (2013 4th)





That's about what you'll have to pay to get RGIII. SO tell me, which would you chose? Put your mancrush down and think sensible. Knowing the holes we have, would you honestly give up all that for RGIII? If you whiff on that pick, you are screwed for many many years to come. You whiff on Cousins, and you pick up a QB later on and still have a solid team.

Package B all day....ERRR DAY.

I'll take the latter as well. All day everyday and twice on Sundays ( and into watching football in Jan and maybe Feb. )

[Mahons21]

Why is RG3 considered such a sure-fire prospect, I keep reading posts (albeit many of them from ES) that mention RG3 and Luck in the same breathe, as if these guys aren't that far apart.

I love RG3 and he's exciting to watch, but I'm not about to glance over the fact that he comes from a spread offense. RG3 has little to no practice in going through progressions/making post-snap reads. This may be me being a little tough on him, but I see a QB that stares down one side of the field, waits until a man gets open and if he doesn't feel a man is going to get open he takes off from the pocket running.

That doesn't sound like the type of football that would translate well to the NFL. Could it? Certainly, and it has before. But I can't see why he's consider a sure-fire pick.

RG3's floor in my opinion is a bust, he could literally flop out of the NFL. While Luck's on the other hand is probably that of an average to above average QB. So long as Luck stays healthy I expect him to be a starting QB his entire career, I can't say the same for RG3.

I may just be preaching to the choir, but if anyone out there is of the mind-set that RG3 should be uttered in the same breathe as Luck, or believes he's a sure-fire prospect, I would like to hear the reasoning why.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Mahons21

Why is RG3 considered such a sure-fire prospect, I keep reading posts (albeit many of them from ES) that mention RG3 and Luck in the same breathe, as if these guys aren't that far apart.

I love RG3 and he's exciting to watch, but I'm not about to glance over the fact that he comes from a spread offense. RG3 has little to no practice in going through progressions/making post-snap reads. This may be me being a little tough on him, but I see a QB that stares down one side of the field, waits until a man gets open and if he doesn't feel a man is going to get open he takes off from the pocket running.

That doesn't sound like the type of football that would translate well to the NFL. Could it? Certainly, and it has before. But I can't see why he's consider a sure-fire pick.

RG3's floor in my opinion is a bust, he could literally flop out of the NFL. While Luck's on the other hand is probably that of an average to above average QB. So long as Luck stays healthy I expect him to be a starting QB his entire career, I can't say the same for RG3.

I may just be preaching to the choir, but if anyone out there is of the mind-set that RG3 should be uttered in the same breathe as Luck, or believes he's a sure-fire prospect, I would like to hear the reasoning why.

I'm not going to really answer your question here I don't think...but I'm of the opinion, and this may sound crazy, that in many ways Luck is severely underrated...underappreciated...whatever the right word is. He's not an electrifying dazzling player but he just gets it done and he does it seemingly so effortlessly that when you put his highlights against someone as electrifying as RG3 can be, then the admiration for RG3 skyrockets.

It's kind of like there was a time when everyone loved the dazzling shortstop abilities of Ozzie Smith as he dove and flipped everywhere, but no one really appreciated that Cal Ripken just knew where to be so he wouldn't necessarily have to dive everywhere

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Mahons21

I may just be preaching to the choir, but if anyone out there is of the mind-set that RG3 should be uttered in the same breathe as Luck, or believes he's a sure-fire prospect, I would like to hear the reasoning why.

This topic could fill an entire thread of its own.
But without being long-winded and getting into a specific breakdown of each of their skillsets.
In sum: for me when I try to separate the QB from the scheme and surrounding talent, Griffin would grade out higher in more areas then Luck.

Griffin's superlatives are innate and I personally place more value on a QBs innate abilities then coaching/scheme derived abilities.
And imo many of Luck perceived superlatives are coachable.
I believe that most prospects have the best coaching of their lives ahead of them.
But Luck as a product of outstanding QB coaching/system (Harbaugh)+his own above average talent is closer to reaching his potential then Griffin.

BTW-welcome to the forum

[Mahons21]

Originally Posted by 30gut

This topic could fill an entire thread of its own.
But without being long-winded and getting into a specific breakdown of each of their skillsets.
In sum: for me when I try to separate the QB from the scheme and surrounding talent, Griffin would grade out higher in more areas then Luck.

I agree with this, however doesn't Cam newton grade out higher in more areas than Manning in his prime? To be accurate I believe you would have to grade each aspect of their games on a scale, and then add the grades up to see who has a higher score.

Griffin's superlatives are innate and I personally place more value on a QBs innate abilities then coaching/scheme derived abilities.
And imo many of Luck perceived superlatives are coachable.
I believe that most prospects have the best coaching of their lives ahead of them.
But Luck as a product of outstanding QB coaching/system (Harbaugh)+his own above average talent is closer to reaching his potential then Griffin.

Fair enough, thanks for offering your opinion.

BTW-welcome to the forum

Appreciate it, everyone around here has been very welcoming and the wealth of football knowledge that can be learned on this website is fully on display.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Package B:
1) Peyton Manning (while using 3rd rounder to draft Kirk Cousins)
2) Reily Reiff -OT (1st)
3) Alfonso Denard-CB (2nd)
4) Lucas Nix -OG (4th)

5) Manti Te'o - ILB (2013 1st)
6) Orhian Johnson -SS (2013 4th)

Peyton Manning

My Redskins draft board:

Round 1-(trade down) Riley Reiff, Jonathan Martin, David Decastro,Ryan Tannehill,
Round 2-Mark Baron, Zerbie Sanders, Mike Adams, Cordy Glenn, Nick Foles
Round 3-Brandon Weeden, Leonard Johnson, Harrison Smith, Josh Norman, Cyrus Gray
Round 4-Alameda Ta'aamu, Brandon Brooks, Devier Posey, Lardarius Green, Russell Wilson
Round 4-Kirk Cousins (although not a fan), Brock Osoweiler, Chris Rainey, Terrance Ganaway
Round 5 and BPA

[mooby]

This is going to be a one-sided thread. Griffin.

[skinsfaninok]

Manning is a SURE bet HOF QB, that when healthy could lead us very very far.. RG3 is a unproven QB with amazing skills but again how many Rookie QB fail? I want to say RG3 but Honestly this is a win now league and I believe PM has 3 years left so I'm going w Manning

[skinsfaninok]

Honestly why can't we have both?

[GTripp0012]

The answer almost certain depends on the timing. I mean, in a world where both guys are viable solutions, you take Manning 100 out of 100 times, right? Am I missing something?

I don't know right now how viable Peyton Manning is as anyone's starting quarterback in 2012, so it would be foolish to hold out for his health if there is a way to acquire Robert Griffin tomorrow (although as far as I know, there isn't). And once you have Robert Griffin, the only point of getting Manning would be to do a one-night stand win the super bowl now kind of deal. And that requires a whole bunch of unexplained reasoning to unsolved problems.

In a vacuum with no qualifications, you'd take Peyton Manning and I'm not sure I see an alternative line of thinking. But in his current state, Manning isn't particularly useful. And Griffin could be a sensational player very soon.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

37 Scud. Only..................37.

[SmootSmack]

If he's healthy Peyton over trading up for RG3

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

If he's healthy Peyton over trading up for RG3

Well there's one that agrees w me