Switch to 3-4 Defense a Failure

[REDSKINS4ever]

The defensive coaches are scratching their heads after 9 straight weeks of mediocrity. The problem, I keep saying, is not the base defense that's being run. It's the personnel on the field. The same thing would still be happening if the Redskins were running a 43 defense just like back in 2006 when the Redskins finished 27th in defense.

[CrazyCanuck]

Originally Posted by jdc65

I do not however believe Shanahan will make the switch back because it will be an open admission of failure.

You hit the nail on the head. While 4-3 vs. 3-4 may be a worthy debate, I think it's moot in this case.

No way Shanny goes back now, not after 3 years. The only way I could see it would be with a new DC. Then Shanny could say "I still prefer the 3-4 but for the good of the team I have decided to defer to our new DC."

[Carnage]

In my humble opinion, TEs challenge the 3-4 and giant TEs are the future. Also more spread offense every year. The future of pro d is being played in places like TCU, Nebraska and Boise State. A base nickel package, 5dbs, but with a larger, taller, more safety type player in the nickel corner spot.
Also, though we wouldnt have enough linebackers, Kerrigan and Orakpo are obviously great pass rushers that used to be ends. Our smallish tackles have also produced in 4-3.

[Bishop Hammer]

Originally Posted by CrazyCanuck

You hit the nail on the head. While 4-3 vs. 3-4 may be a worthy debate, I think it's moot in this case.

No way Shanny goes back now, not after 3 years. The only way I could see it would be with a new DC. Then Shanny could say "I still prefer the 3-4 but for the good of the team I have decided to defer to our new DC."

Shanny won't do that because he won't admit he made a mistake. Mikey also won't get a strong DC. Even if Haslett is gone his replacement won't fare much better. MS doesn't have an eye for defensive talent and no inkling how to construct a defense. Very rarely has he had a dominant D. Its a shame because when he's had one his teams have done well. I don't see that happening with our beloved Skins.

[#56fanatic]

people are fickle. 1st year is was fire haslett, 3/4 has to go.
2nd year moved up to 13th(?), got the right personel and 3/4 is "working" (good call!)
3rd year, have injuries to 4/5 starters, and now haslett has to go, 3/4 isn't working

People its more than just wins and losses. We had the right personel to play a very effective 3/4 defense. And they got hurt. This issue is our backup personel aren't that good. WE can't just change something after one year when it does't work. We need to stay the course, build on the players we have. 3/4 defenses in this league are what work, they dominate. Orakpo, Kerrigan being hurt is HUGE. Carrigan is not getting the pressure because those two aren't there.

We need another year of drafting, healthy key players, and we will be dominate again. we need to stop all the knee jerk reactions and just build instead of tear down and rebuild every two years.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

people are fickle. 1st year is was fire haslett, 3/4 has to go.
2nd year moved up to 13th(?), got the right personel and 3/4 is "working" (good call!)
3rd year, have injuries to 4/5 starters, and now haslett has to go, 3/4 isn't working

People its more than just wins and losses. We had the right personel to play a very effective 3/4 defense. And they got hurt. This issue is our backup personel aren't that good. WE can't just change something after one year when it does't work. We need to stay the course, build on the players we have. 3/4 defenses in this league are what work, they dominate. Orakpo, Kerrigan being hurt is HUGE. Carrigan is not getting the pressure because those two aren't there.

We need another year of drafting, healthy key players, and we will be dominate again. we need to stop all the knee jerk reactions and just build instead of tear down and rebuild every two years.

Can you tell me when did we ever "dominate?" ...cause those days were early 90's and 80's. Since then the best defenses we've had were under Greg Williams.

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Can you tell me when did we ever "dominate?" ...cause those days were early 90's and 80's. Since then the best defenses we've had were under Greg Williams.

I don't know about that. If you remember in 2000 and 2001, the Redskins had a top 5 defense under Ray Rhodes and then Kurt Schottenheimer. Greg Williams ran the 3rd ranked defense in 2004 and we were in the top 10 under Greg a couple of seasons but let's not forget the earlier part of that decade.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

I don't know about that. If you remember in 2000 and 2001, the Redskins had a top 5 defense under Ray Rhodes and then Kurt Schottenheimer. Greg Williams ran the 3rd ranked defense in 2004 and we were in the top 10 under Greg a couple of seasons but let's not forget the earlier part of that decade.

I just think with the defense most of the improvement is going to have to come from the draft and perhaps a free agent or two. We really need to get 3-4 solid starters from next years draft in the worst way.

[Sonny9TD]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Orakpo was a great SAM his first season. Though I'd rather see Rak with a hand on the ground now. I'd go with Rak and Bowen as DEs, Cofield and Jenkins at DTs, Jackson and Fletch and Kerrigan as LBs.

And four stiffs off the street for our secondary.

It couldn't be worse. It just couldn't. We have some needs.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

The scheme isn't the problem. It's the lack of talented players. Shanahan has always sucked at acquiring defensive talent. As long as he's in Washington, our defenses will never be good, no matter what scheme we run.

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

The scheme isn't the problem. It's the lack of talented players. Shanahan has always sucked at acquiring defensive talent. As long as he's in Washington, our defenses will never be good, no matter what scheme we run.

If you look at our defense very closely, you will see that every player that is starting on the front seven didn't play in a 3-4 scheme in college except Barry Cofield. Cofield played some NT at Northwestern before being drafted by the NY Midgets. Every linebacker and down linemen played in 4-3 systems in college. Mike Shanahan is crappy as hell at picking players that are natural to the 3-4 scheme. As I mentioned before in this thread, Bruce Allen, Mike Shanahan, and Scott Campbell are going to have to look more closely at the NCAA football programs that run the 3-4. Most notably Alabama, Maryland, and Notre Dame.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

The defensive coaches are scratching their heads after 9 straight weeks of mediocrity. The problem, I keep saying, is not the base defense that's being run. It's the personnel on the field. The same thing would still be happening if the Redskins were running a 43 defense just like back in 2006 when the Redskins finished 27th in defense.

Not 9 weeks of mediocrity, 9 weeks of steadily marching toward having the worst defense in the history of the league.

There IS a BIG difference. I would love for this defense to be mediocre right now, it might have meant one or two more wins, and we would still be in the hunt for a playoff spot. The defense is absolutely atrocious right now though, with no end in sight. If we are planning on Merriwaeather to save us, my god help us.........

[53Fan]

If we have a truley feared pass rusher on our team not named Orakpo I'd like to know who he is. I love Kerrigan but of course he's much more effective with Rak on the other side. Who on the D-Line scares you? I was hoping it would be Jenkins but that hasn't worked out. Where's our safety blitz? That'sa joke. Polomolu doesn't play for us. Hall is never gonna be the player he was expected to be because he's never been very coachable. Add to that an uninspired...uncreative DC and you get what we've got fella's. 3-4 4-3. We'd pretty much suck either way.

[skinsfan69]

Kerrigan hasn't had two guys on him since Rak went down. He's simply not getting to the QB. He's one of the best players on a bad defense. He wouldn't start for any of the top defenses. I see Kerrigan as an average to slightly above average player. We need elite players on our defense. Not average. The last potentially elite player we had on defense was #21.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

If you look at our defense very closely, you will see that every player that is starting on the front seven didn't play in a 3-4 scheme in college except Barry Cofield. Cofield played some NT at Northwestern before being drafted by the NY Midgets. Every linebacker and down linemen played in 4-3 systems in college. Mike Shanahan is crappy as hell at picking players that are natural to the 3-4 scheme. As I mentioned before in this thread, Bruce Allen, Mike Shanahan, and Scott Campbell are going to have to look more closely at the NCAA football programs that run the 3-4. Most notably Alabama, Maryland, and Notre Dame.

Your point has nothing to do with mine. The majority of our defensive players aren't talented - period. Our defense would be no better if we kept the same players but switched to a 4-3.