Courtney Brown (3/15/2005)

dirtbag2112 · 03-15-2005, 11:25 AM

In 2001, Brown missed 11 games with a knee and ankle ailments. In 2002, he missed five games with a knee injury that required surgery. In 2003, Brown missed three games after tearing his right biceps. This past season, Brown suffered a serious foot injury in Week 2 against Dallas and had season-ending surgery. Brown reportedly had screws removed from his foot recently.

...uhh no thanks

beg8878 · 03-15-2005, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtbag2112

In 2001, Brown missed 11 games with a knee and ankle ailments. In 2002, he missed five games with a knee injury that required surgery. In 2003, Brown missed three games after tearing his right biceps. This past season, Brown suffered a serious foot injury in Week 2 against Dallas and had season-ending surgery. Brown reportedly had screws removed from his foot recently.

...uhh no thanks

Well, he was on a downward trend in games missed going into last season. Maybe last season was a fluke

TheMalcolmConnection · 03-15-2005, 11:36 AM

Sounds like he's just an unlucky fella. I'd take the chance, provided the price is right. At first, I was thinking a multi-year incentive-laden deal, now I am definitely in Matty's camp of a 1-year deal which is high yield for both sides.

FRPLG · 03-15-2005, 11:52 AM

None of his injuries are degenerative. Looks like a bit of unluckiness coupled with a somewhat less than rugged frame. The luck has to turn at some point and if rotated enough his shelf life probably increases proportionally.

Matty just for the record in the other thread I also mentioned that he would probably want any long term deal to have more money. That is one reason I mentioned the idea of voidable years. The best of both worlds really. Keeps the contract short and mitigates injury risk. Let's be honest, he's not going to get a long term big money deal. At best he'd get a deal like the one I proposed and if he is even mildly healthy the deal is worth it for us. I look at a 1 year deal and see only bad things. If we're confident enough to give him a deal why wouldn't we try and lock him up a little longer? The one year deal just screams one and done. With his talent I'd say we'd get the short end of the stick most of the time there. A nice little 4 year(actually two year with the voidables) gives him a chance to show he can stay healthy more than one season and gives us some time to extend him if he does. I am certainly not advocating we sign him to a four year deal that end up costing us 8 mil for 9 games in four seasons.

dirtbag2112 · 03-15-2005, 12:01 PM

I know we took a gamble on guys like Walt Harris who was recovering from potentially carreer ending surgery, but doesn't coach preach about how he likes tough, durable guys? Maybe Brown is just unlucky so I guess our organization would be an appropriate fit.

MTK · 03-15-2005, 12:03 PM

With a player with an extensive history of injuries like Brown, what's wrong with the thought of one and done? Why take on any additional risk if you don't have to?

That's just my opinion, guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Big C · 03-15-2005, 12:06 PM

if we get brown to a reasonable contract, with incentives to earn him more pay, that would, IMO, eliminate us from getting a DE, james or merriman, with our first pick. id have to think we would get a CB or WR after that. signing Courtney brown fills one more hole for us at this moment, even tho he may get hurt as the season goes on. i think this is a good pick up if it happens. one less hole to fill in the draft, reuniting him with lavar, and putting him wiht our defensive coaching staff. as long as it isnt a big deal that eats up the rest of our cap space, this would be a good move to me

Riggo44 · 03-15-2005, 12:34 PM

Like I said in a post last week. I think this would be a really good pick up. We could then use are 1st round pick on a WR or CB.

I think Courtny Brown has some really great football left in him. He can't get hurt ever year. Can he?

PSUSkinsFan21 · 03-15-2005, 01:41 PM

Sorry guys, but I just don't see what is gained by a one year deal? It's been said before and I agree that the only time you sign players to one year deals is when you are making a run for the ring. I'm as optomistic as they come, but I really don't see this year being THE year. IMO you sign him to a 2-3 year contract with small bonuses and little guaranteed money. If he's a bust, you cut him after a year or two without the salary cap hit. If he's a stud, you keep him and consider renegotiating a longer-term deal that is even more cap-friendly after a year or two.
Let's not forget here, yes he's been injured early and often in his career, but let's not confuse him with some 35 year old, washed up D-lineman who only has a year or two left in the tank. The guy is the same age as Arrington and Samuels. Because he's coming off of injuries, we've got a chance to get him on the cheap. If he can stay healthy, playing under Williams' system, he could be great; which makes this a golden opportunity to make a real steal.
Again, the potential upside, IMO, is much greater than the risk of a couple million $ over the next few years. However, if you don't lock him into a multi-year contract, you lose almost all of that upside. Your best case scenario would be that he turns out to be a stud during a year when you aren't a legitimate contender for the championship and then you either can't resign him because he's on the open market or you have to pay through the nose to keep him. Just doesn't make sense to me. If you are going to sign him at all, it's got to be for more than one year. Otherwise, why bother? Just my opinion.

FRPLG · 03-15-2005, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

Sorry guys, but I just don't see what is gained by a one year deal? It's been said before and I agree that the only time you sign players to one year deals is when you are making a run for the ring. I'm as optomistic as they come, but I really don't see this year being THE year. IMO you sign him to a 2-3 year contract with small bonuses and little guaranteed money. If he's a bust, you cut him after a year or two without the salary cap hit. If he's a stud, you keep him and consider renegotiating a longer-term deal that is even more cap-friendly after a year or two.
Let's not forget here, yes he's been injured early and often in his career, but let's not confuse him with some 35 year old, washed up D-lineman who only has a year or two left in the tank. The guy is the same age as Arrington and Samuels. Because he's coming off of injuries, we've got a chance to get him on the cheap. If he can stay healthy, playing under Williams' system, he could be great; which makes this a golden opportunity to make a real steal.
Again, the potential upside, IMO, is much greater than the risk of a couple million $ over the next few years. However, if you don't lock him into a multi-year contract, you lose almost all of that upside. Your best case scenario would be that he turns out to be a stud during a year when you aren't a legitimate contender for the championship and then you either can't resign him because he's on the open market or you have to pay through the nose to keep him. Just doesn't make sense to me. If you are going to sign him at all, it's got to be for more than one year. Otherwise, why bother? Just my opinion.

What he said

BIGREDSKINFAN63 · 03-15-2005, 04:47 PM

i say give the guy a chance.we took a chance on darrell gardner,and he had a good year in washington.if CB had the talent to be a #1 pick,he deserves a 2nd chance.

Yellow31 · 03-15-2005, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

Sorry guys, but I just don't see what is gained by a one year deal? It's been said before and I agree that the only time you sign players to one year deals is when you are making a run for the ring. I'm as optomistic as they come, but I really don't see this year being THE year. IMO you sign him to a 2-3 year contract with small bonuses and little guaranteed money. If he's a bust, you cut him after a year or two without the salary cap hit. If he's a stud, you keep him and consider renegotiating a longer-term deal that is even more cap-friendly after a year or two.
Let's not forget here, yes he's been injured early and often in his career, but let's not confuse him with some 35 year old, washed up D-lineman who only has a year or two left in the tank. The guy is the same age as Arrington and Samuels. Because he's coming off of injuries, we've got a chance to get him on the cheap. If he can stay healthy, playing under Williams' system, he could be great; which makes this a golden opportunity to make a real steal.
Again, the potential upside, IMO, is much greater than the risk of a couple million $ over the next few years. However, if you don't lock him into a multi-year contract, you lose almost all of that upside. Your best case scenario would be that he turns out to be a stud during a year when you aren't a legitimate contender for the championship and then you either can't resign him because he's on the open market or you have to pay through the nose to keep him. Just doesn't make sense to me. If you are going to sign him at all, it's got to be for more than one year. Otherwise, why bother? Just my opinion.

This is all great in principle but more than likely if he has a good or really good to great year he would probably hold out for more ca$h anyway...

Gmanc711 · 03-15-2005, 12:30 PM

I agree; with those who think its a good idea to take a roll with him. Injuries are his biggest problem; not nessicarly his play. So he's not a "bust" in terms his overall play (although hes not worth the #1 pick either); but its alot of his injuris that hampered him. He would be a upgrade to our defense and Williams has always been one to get the most out of people. If we signed him I dont think it would be a bad idea at all. However, we have to keep it smart. Lots of incentives; basically just everything everyones saying.

diehardskin2982 · 03-15-2005, 01:47 PM

He could be this seasons Shawn Springs. He will be reunited with Lavar in a system that is known for bringing the best out of players. If Lavar and he can be half of what they were at penn state together it will be worth every penny. Tell me how often 2 players from the same defense in college are taken in with the first 2 picks in the draft. Thats unreal, and the combination of him, lavar, and Taylor I would hate to play offense agianst that group :smashfrea

PSUSkinsFan21 · 03-15-2005, 01:53 PM

[QUOTE=diehardskin2982]Tell me how often 2 players from the same defense in college are taken in with the first 2 picks in the draft. Thats unreal, and the combination of him, lavar, and Taylor I would hate to play offense agianst that group

Absolutely agree. Picture it: you're an O-lineman lined up opposite Courtney Brown and out of the corner of your eye you see Lavar inching up to the line to blitz. What do you do? (besides say a prayer for your QB)

View Poll Results: Are you in favor of the Skins signing C. Brown?
Absolutely	12	12.37%
Only if the price is right	74	76.29%
No thanks	9	9.28%
Where's Bruce Smith?	2	2.06%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

03-15-2005, 11:36 AM	#3
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Courtney Brown Sounds like he's just an unlucky fella. I'd take the chance, provided the price is right. At first, I was thinking a multi-year incentive-laden deal, now I am definitely in Matty's camp of a 1-year deal which is high yield for both sides. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

03-15-2005, 11:52 AM	#4
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 47 Posts: 10,164	Re: Courtney Brown None of his injuries are degenerative. Looks like a bit of unluckiness coupled with a somewhat less than rugged frame. The luck has to turn at some point and if rotated enough his shelf life probably increases proportionally. Matty just for the record in the other thread I also mentioned that he would probably want any long term deal to have more money. That is one reason I mentioned the idea of voidable years. The best of both worlds really. Keeps the contract short and mitigates injury risk. Let's be honest, he's not going to get a long term big money deal. At best he'd get a deal like the one I proposed and if he is even mildly healthy the deal is worth it for us. I look at a 1 year deal and see only bad things. If we're confident enough to give him a deal why wouldn't we try and lock him up a little longer? The one year deal just screams one and done. With his talent I'd say we'd get the short end of the stick most of the time there. A nice little 4 year(actually two year with the voidables) gives him a chance to show he can stay healthy more than one season and gives us some time to extend him if he does. I am certainly not advocating we sign him to a four year deal that end up costing us 8 mil for 9 games in four seasons.

03-15-2005, 12:01 PM	#5
dirtbag2112 Special Teams Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 293	Re: Courtney Brown I know we took a gamble on guys like Walt Harris who was recovering from potentially carreer ending surgery, but doesn't coach preach about how he likes tough, durable guys? Maybe Brown is just unlucky so I guess our organization would be an appropriate fit.

03-15-2005, 12:03 PM	#6
MTK Hail Raiser Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 53 Posts: 100,050	Re: Courtney Brown With a player with an extensive history of injuries like Brown, what's wrong with the thought of one and done? Why take on any additional risk if you don't have to? That's just my opinion, guess we'll have to wait and see what happens. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

03-15-2005, 11:25 AM	#1
dirtbag2112 Special Teams Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 293	Re: Courtney Brown In 2001, Brown missed 11 games with a knee and ankle ailments. In 2002, he missed five games with a knee injury that required surgery. In 2003, Brown missed three games after tearing his right biceps. This past season, Brown suffered a serious foot injury in Week 2 against Dallas and had season-ending surgery. Brown reportedly had screws removed from his foot recently. ...uhh no thanks

03-15-2005, 12:06 PM	#7
Big C Mr. Brightside Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Leesburg, VA Age: 40 Posts: 4,453	Re: Courtney Brown if we get brown to a reasonable contract, with incentives to earn him more pay, that would, IMO, eliminate us from getting a DE, james or merriman, with our first pick. id have to think we would get a CB or WR after that. signing Courtney brown fills one more hole for us at this moment, even tho he may get hurt as the season goes on. i think this is a good pick up if it happens. one less hole to fill in the draft, reuniting him with lavar, and putting him wiht our defensive coaching staff. as long as it isnt a big deal that eats up the rest of our cap space, this would be a good move to me __________________ "I don't care what nobody say I'm a be me, stay hood stay real, cause I'm out here grindin'" -Joe Gibbs

03-15-2005, 12:34 PM	#8
Riggo44 The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Clemente CA Age: 52 Posts: 2,390	Re: Courtney Brown Like I said in a post last week. I think this would be a really good pick up. We could then use are 1st round pick on a WR or CB. I think Courtny Brown has some really great football left in him. He can't get hurt ever year. Can he? __________________ Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. Benjamin Franklin

03-15-2005, 01:41 PM	#9
PSUSkinsFan21 The Starter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Philadelphia, PA Age: 49 Posts: 1,340	Re: Courtney Brown Sorry guys, but I just don't see what is gained by a one year deal? It's been said before and I agree that the only time you sign players to one year deals is when you are making a run for the ring. I'm as optomistic as they come, but I really don't see this year being THE year. IMO you sign him to a 2-3 year contract with small bonuses and little guaranteed money. If he's a bust, you cut him after a year or two without the salary cap hit. If he's a stud, you keep him and consider renegotiating a longer-term deal that is even more cap-friendly after a year or two. Let's not forget here, yes he's been injured early and often in his career, but let's not confuse him with some 35 year old, washed up D-lineman who only has a year or two left in the tank. The guy is the same age as Arrington and Samuels. Because he's coming off of injuries, we've got a chance to get him on the cheap. If he can stay healthy, playing under Williams' system, he could be great; which makes this a golden opportunity to make a real steal. Again, the potential upside, IMO, is much greater than the risk of a couple million $ over the next few years. However, if you don't lock him into a multi-year contract, you lose almost all of that upside. Your best case scenario would be that he turns out to be a stud during a year when you aren't a legitimate contender for the championship and then you either can't resign him because he's on the open market or you have to pay through the nose to keep him. Just doesn't make sense to me. If you are going to sign him at all, it's got to be for more than one year. Otherwise, why bother? Just my opinion. __________________ "Hail to the Redskins!" and "Fight on State!"

03-15-2005, 04:47 PM	#11
BIGREDSKINFAN63 Special Teams Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: bassett-va Age: 63 Posts: 289	Re: Courtney Brown i say give the guy a chance.we took a chance on darrell gardner,and he had a good year in washington.if CB had the talent to be a #1 pick,he deserves a 2nd chance. __________________ "7 days without the redskins, makes one weak!!!"

03-15-2005, 12:30 PM	#13
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 40 Posts: 7,506	Re: Courtney Brown I agree; with those who think its a good idea to take a roll with him. Injuries are his biggest problem; not nessicarly his play. So he's not a "bust" in terms his overall play (although hes not worth the #1 pick either); but its alot of his injuris that hampered him. He would be a upgrade to our defense and Williams has always been one to get the most out of people. If we signed him I dont think it would be a bad idea at all. However, we have to keep it smart. Lots of incentives; basically just everything everyones saying. __________________ #21

03-15-2005, 01:47 PM	#14
diehardskin2982 Another Year, another mess. Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,581	Re: Courtney Brown He could be this seasons Shawn Springs. He will be reunited with Lavar in a system that is known for bringing the best out of players. If Lavar and he can be half of what they were at penn state together it will be worth every penny. Tell me how often 2 players from the same defense in college are taken in with the first 2 picks in the draft. Thats unreal, and the combination of him, lavar, and Taylor I would hate to play offense agianst that group :smashfrea __________________ That got ugly fast

03-15-2005, 01:53 PM	#15
PSUSkinsFan21 The Starter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Philadelphia, PA Age: 49 Posts: 1,340	Re: Courtney Brown [QUOTE=diehardskin2982]Tell me how often 2 players from the same defense in college are taken in with the first 2 picks in the draft. Thats unreal, and the combination of him, lavar, and Taylor I would hate to play offense agianst that group Absolutely agree. Picture it: you're an O-lineman lined up opposite Courtney Brown and out of the corner of your eye you see Lavar inching up to the line to blitz. What do you do? (besides say a prayer for your QB) __________________ "Hail to the Redskins!" and "Fight on State!"

Courtney Brown (3/15/2005)

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