Let's talk about the front office situation

Schneed10 · 12-31-2013, 12:43 PM

I like Allen in this role because I don't think he would be the guy who will make the personnel decision. I think he is a good leader who understands how to delegate responsibility and will lean on the advice of his scouting group.

Surely he will also be smart enough to take advice from the coach on scheme fit.

My biggest beef all along has been no separation between church and state. Meaning, I hate how Shanahan had both final say on personnel and coaching decisions. It's impossible to remain objective and it's just too much for one person to worry about.

You want someone who knows how to coach and can identify scheme fit. You want someone who really knows how to scout and can identify talent. And you want someone capable of balancing it all and making sensible decisions, without being too deep into the weeds - that's Allen.

Cerrato never used the scouting department. And if Shanahan ignored them, that was a mistake too. Supposedly they are well-regarded. They'll have more input into personnel decisions than Allen will, he'll just be the guy enabling them to do it, and pulling the trigger.

Redskins_P · 12-31-2013, 01:07 PM

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1052458Cerrato never used the scouting department. And if Shanahan ignored them, that was a mistake too. Supposedly they are well-regarded. They'll have more input into personnel decisions than Allen will, he'll just be the guy enabling them to do it, and pulling the trigger.[/QUOTE]

I really hope that is what Allen meant when he said he wanted to give Scott Campbell & Morocco Brown a chance to succeed. The more I think about it the more I get the feeling that Allen will use his resources and let them do the work their supposed to do and most importantly TRUST their work.

MTK · 12-31-2013, 01:14 PM

Shanahan would be proud that his message of BS got through... to some at least.

FRPLG · 12-31-2013, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Shanahan would be proud that his message of BS got through... to some at least.

No kidding. What an incredible level if ignorance that statement took.

TheMalcolmConnection · 12-31-2013, 01:18 PM

While maybe not having a true GM was a mistake, I get so tired of hearing how poor of an owner Snyder is. We rehash and rehash facts from almost ten years ago. Sure, I'd love a more traditional model since we like to do things the ass-backwards way, but saying Allen is just a yes-man after Snyder backing off for years is quite a stretch when there's nothing to prove otherwise.

saden1 · 12-31-2013, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

While maybe not having a true GM was a mistake, I get so tired of hearing how poor of an owner Snyder is. We rehash and rehash facts from almost ten years ago. Sure, I'd love a more traditional model since we like to do things the ass-backwards way, but saying Allen is just a yes-man after Snyder backing off for years is quite a stretch when there's nothing to prove otherwise.

The proof is in the pudding. It's not rehashing if failure is constant.

I got a question for you lot, what exactly is the difference between Allen and Cerrato?

Redskins_P · 12-31-2013, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

The proof is in the pudding. It's not rehashing if failure is constant.

I got a question for you lot, what exactly is the difference between Allen and Cerrato?

Allen has way more pedigree than Cerrato. Allen has been an NFL Executive for years and took a franchise to the Super Bowl (Tampa). He's had experience as a GM and while he may not have a perfect record in that aspect (Every GM has missed on draft picks & FA's), comparing him to Cerrato is ridiculous. Bruce has also stabilized our cap situation and the way we do our contracts which is something Cerrato had no clue of doing. C'mon are you seriously comparing the two? Cerrato was a complete joke and still is.

saden1 · 12-31-2013, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins_P

Allen has way more pedigree than Cerrato. Allen has been an NFL Executive for years and took a franchise to the Super Bowl (Tampa). He's had experience as a GM and while he may not have a perfect record in that aspect (Every GM has missed on draft picks & FA's), comparing him to Cerrato is ridiculous. Bruce has also stabilized our cap situation and the way we do our contracts which is something Cerrato had no clue of doing. C'mon are you seriously comparing the two? Cerrato was a complete joke and still is.

Bruce Allen didn't win a SB with the Bucs, it was Rich McKay not to mention the fact that after he took over he was promptly fired as the GM. I guess I am the only one that finds it troublesome that the "GM" of this team is out there now proclaiming "I'm in charge now." The management structure of the Redskins is a farce and for all you know Shannhan was the guy that got this team out of cap hell. Shanahan had the finally say in all personal matters so if anyone deserves credit it should be him.

Bruce Allen is Snyder's lackey, much like Vinny.

TheMalcolmConnection · 12-31-2013, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

The proof is in the pudding. It's not rehashing if failure is constant.

I got a question for you lot, what exactly is the difference between Allen and Cerrato?

For Cerrato it was undisputable proof that he was Snyder's yes-man, for Allen, it's PURE speculation, based on not many facts. Not to say he won't totally fail, BUT to say it's because he's up Snyder's butt might be a bit premature.

RobH4413 · 12-31-2013, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

For Cerrato it was undisputable proof that he was Snyder's yes-man, for Allen, it's PURE speculation, based on not many facts. Not to say he won't totally fail, BUT to say it's because he's up Snyder's butt might be a bit premature.

Good point. I just have a tough time giving Snyder the benefit of the doubt. I also understand that it's a tired argument to be critical of our owner.... but feel it's applicable given the latest. You'll rarely here me bash Snyder inappropriately when it's out of context.

Obviously hoping that Allen and Co succeed, but cant shake the feeling that weve done this before.

Chico23231 · 12-31-2013, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

The proof is in the pudding. It's not rehashing if failure is constant.

I got a question for you lot, what exactly is the difference between Allen and Cerrato?

Obviously it's ba perfers to use the draft
To build the team, stronger negotiating fa contracts, the ability to obtain a franchise qb. Very big differences

Evilgrin · 12-31-2013, 01:27 PM

A good GM delegates everything and manages those people, just like a good HC.

WillH · 12-31-2013, 01:45 PM

To all those that are being defensive about this new FO arrangement being criticized. Some people, including myself, are wary of this arrangement due to the track record of this organization. I don't think anyone is arguing that this CAN'T or WON'T work, but there should be some healthy skepticism about this arrangement. If Allen will be defaulting to the opinions of his personnel management why not explicitly say so? Why say so firmly that he is the decision maker? If the plan is to give Allen and Brown a chance to prove themselves before promotion, why not spell it out? There may be some very good reasons, but on the surface it doesn't look much different than the past arrangement with Vinnie, and that is what is alarming about this. I very much HOPE they are going to give the personnel guys more say, and trust their judgement, but I think many of us would feel a lot more confident if they had announced that someone with personnel experience would have final say in personnel decisions.

WillH · 12-31-2013, 01:52 PM

Also, what concerns me is that it sounded like they have decided already what direction this team was going in . . . When Allen said that the personnel guys would be given new instructions on what to look for in players . . . So that could mean one of two things to me:

1. They have a coach already, he is in the playoffs, and they can't talk about it, but they have had communications with them under the table and know the direction the team will be going in.

2. They have already decided what direction THEY want the team to go in, and they are looking for a coach willing to be on board with "the plan."

Based on past experience, I'd say 1 is much less likely than 2. Maybe there are other possibilities, any thoughts?

los panda · 12-31-2013, 02:02 PM

i like b.a. because he's not vinny...

12-31-2013, 12:43 PM	#1
Schneed10 A Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 46 Posts: 12,458	Re: Let's talk about the front office situation I like Allen in this role because I don't think he would be the guy who will make the personnel decision. I think he is a good leader who understands how to delegate responsibility and will lean on the advice of his scouting group. Surely he will also be smart enough to take advice from the coach on scheme fit. My biggest beef all along has been no separation between church and state. Meaning, I hate how Shanahan had both final say on personnel and coaching decisions. It's impossible to remain objective and it's just too much for one person to worry about. You want someone who knows how to coach and can identify scheme fit. You want someone who really knows how to scout and can identify talent. And you want someone capable of balancing it all and making sensible decisions, without being too deep into the weeds - that's Allen. Cerrato never used the scouting department. And if Shanahan ignored them, that was a mistake too. Supposedly they are well-regarded. They'll have more input into personnel decisions than Allen will, he'll just be the guy enabling them to do it, and pulling the trigger. __________________ God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.

12-31-2013, 01:07 PM	#2
Redskins_P Fight for old DC! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Aldie, VA Age: 47 Posts: 4,101	Re: Let's talk about the front office situation [QUOTE=Schneed10;1052458Cerrato never used the scouting department. And if Shanahan ignored them, that was a mistake too. Supposedly they are well-regarded. They'll have more input into personnel decisions than Allen will, he'll just be the guy enabling them to do it, and pulling the trigger.[/QUOTE] I really hope that is what Allen meant when he said he wanted to give Scott Campbell & Morocco Brown a chance to succeed. The more I think about it the more I get the feeling that Allen will use his resources and let them do the work their supposed to do and most importantly TRUST their work.

12-31-2013, 01:14 PM	#3
MTK Hail Raiser Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 53 Posts: 100,044	Re: Let's talk about the front office situation Shanahan would be proud that his message of BS got through... to some at least. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

12-31-2013, 01:18 PM	#5
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Let's talk about the front office situation While maybe not having a true GM was a mistake, I get so tired of hearing how poor of an owner Snyder is. We rehash and rehash facts from almost ten years ago. Sure, I'd love a more traditional model since we like to do things the ass-backwards way, but saying Allen is just a yes-man after Snyder backing off for years is quite a stretch when there's nothing to prove otherwise. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

12-31-2013, 01:27 PM	#12
Evilgrin The Starter Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 1,074	Re: Let's talk about the front office situation A good GM delegates everything and manages those people, just like a good HC. __________________ Bruce Allen “We’re winning off the field,” Redskins #2 In Revenue Per Year!

12-31-2013, 01:45 PM	#13
WillH The Starter Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,592	Re: Let's talk about the front office situation To all those that are being defensive about this new FO arrangement being criticized. Some people, including myself, are wary of this arrangement due to the track record of this organization. I don't think anyone is arguing that this CAN'T or WON'T work, but there should be some healthy skepticism about this arrangement. If Allen will be defaulting to the opinions of his personnel management why not explicitly say so? Why say so firmly that he is the decision maker? If the plan is to give Allen and Brown a chance to prove themselves before promotion, why not spell it out? There may be some very good reasons, but on the surface it doesn't look much different than the past arrangement with Vinnie, and that is what is alarming about this. I very much HOPE they are going to give the personnel guys more say, and trust their judgement, but I think many of us would feel a lot more confident if they had announced that someone with personnel experience would have final say in personnel decisions.

12-31-2013, 01:52 PM	#14
WillH The Starter Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,592	Re: Let's talk about the front office situation Also, what concerns me is that it sounded like they have decided already what direction this team was going in . . . When Allen said that the personnel guys would be given new instructions on what to look for in players . . . So that could mean one of two things to me: 1. They have a coach already, he is in the playoffs, and they can't talk about it, but they have had communications with them under the table and know the direction the team will be going in. 2. They have already decided what direction THEY want the team to go in, and they are looking for a coach willing to be on board with "the plan." Based on past experience, I'd say 1 is much less likely than 2. Maybe there are other possibilities, any thoughts?

12-31-2013, 02:02 PM	#15
los panda Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 5,230	Re: Let's talk about the front office situation i like b.a. because he's not vinny... __________________ 9 21 28 33 42 43 44 49 65 81

Let's talk about the front office situation

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