Vox.com: How NFL teams ignore basic economics and draft players irrationally.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Evilgrin

You have to seperate QB trades from everything else.

Trading a pick for Jason Taylor was not smart, trading a pick for TJ Duckett not smart... Trading Champ Bailey + a Pick for CP, not the best trade. I'd be inclined to never let the skins trade picks. In this era where QBs can make such a difference, you can't say no.

I'm inclined to think the portis trade was close to a wash. Otherwise...this.

[Dirtbag59]

T0t4lly 0ffIcal. Potatoeskins win RG[(84*7^2)-4113] trade.

Report: Stedman Bailey suspended for four games | ProFootballTalk

#Winning #Tigerblood

[SirLK26]

NC Skins, I wanted to ask you this question(s) before, when this thread was still active, but I kept forgetting.

So anyway, are you happy with how our new FO worked the draft? We traded back and picked up more chances twice, and while the value of the selections can be argued, we did add more chances for a hit. Or would you have rather us stayed at the top of each round and had a chance at a more talented player? Just wondering because you posted this thread and link after the draft, so I was curious whether you were praising this FO for the draft, or condemning our last regime(basically over one, albeit big, trade-up).

Edit: Partially asking because as we all know, Shanahan liked to trade back, sometimes to Redskins fans' chagrin. But I suppose when he seen a special QB talent like Griffin, he felt justified in moving up, even with the price he payed.

[skinsfan69]

ESPN did a poll on who won the trade and 80% thought the Rams won out. I think most Redskin fans are sold on RG3 being a franchise QB. I still see him being somewhat of a project in the pro game and that's why I would have never made the deal. Now if we gave up the picks to get Luck? I make that deal. I think it's a big year for not only Griffin, but also the Rams as they look ready to take the next step in a brutal division.

[MTK]

We won't know the true "winner" of the trade for years. Pointless to even try to judge it now. It's like grading a draft before the players even step on the field.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

We won't know the true "winner" of the trade for years. Pointless to even try to judge it now. It's like grading a draft before the players even step on the field.

That is very true but if you kept score and since the NFL is about winning:

Redskins: 2012 NFC East Champions, 2012 Rookie of the year, "Potential Franchise QB"
Rams: Beat the Redskins in 2012, QB coming off a torn ACL

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

The draft is always interesting because there seems to be a lot of 'reach' picks that boils down to weather the front office knows better then everyone else or making you wonder if they're being too cute for their own good.

In regards to the RG3 trade I still say it was more than worth it. Actually I'm starting to think that it might have been a steal for us.

Now picture this. In an alternate universe the Rams get buyers remorse after which they call the Redskins and say we will give you the following

Redskins would recieve:
Greg Robinson - OT
Janoris Jenkins - CB
Michael Brockers - DT
Alec Ogletree - MLB/ILB
Steadman Bailey - WR

Rams would receive:
RG3 -QB

I imagine most of us would say hell no.

Granted its not an apples to apples comparison but also keep in mind that the 2013 QB class was pretty underwhelming talent wise and this year we might have found ourselves begging to draft Johnny Leaf I mean Manziel.

Right now had we not taken RG3 we likely would have Cousins as our QB which wouldn't have been horrible but I think a lot of us are a lot more comfortable with him as a backup. Sure you could say maybe they would have taken Wilson instead but I think its well known at this point after Luck and RG3 that Shanahan liked Cousins the most.

IDK Dirtbag...I would imagine almost all NFL GM's would make that deal You have 4 really good starters there plus Bailey has serious potential.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

That is very true but if you kept score and since the NFL is about winning:

Redskins: 2012 NFC East Champions, 2012 Rookie of the year, "Potential Franchise QB"
Rams: Beat the Redskins in 2012, QB coming off a torn ACL

If you're counting 2012 then you have to count 2013 as well, and this team won 3 games last year. Rams won 7 with no QB.

On a side note, people seem to be writing off Sam Bradford. He was having a pretty good year before he was hurt.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

IDK Dirtbag...I would imagine almost all NFL GM's would make that deal You have 4 really good starters there plus Bailey has serious potential.

Well no doubt its solid and I genuinely believe that if Bradford stays healthy the trade will be one of the few win-wins in NFL history. However in terms of the players the Rams got, the way I feel is we've kind of had that caliber of players before and the best that happened was we eeked into the playoffs (Chris Samuals, Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington, Cornelius Griffin, and Randle-El (728 Yards in 07)). So it would be great to have those types of players but without a QB we wouldn't be a serious contender.

Granted again its not an apples to apples comparison as the Rams guys are younger not to mention different kinds of players but I honestly feel that the two most critical elements to winning a Super Bowl in this day and age are a top flight QB and Defense. And as tough as it is to put together an elite defense finding a QB the caliber of RG3 is exponentially harder.

I mean not to diminish the Seahawks scouting department but that number 1 ranked defense is essentially filled with guys who were no bodies going into the league. Some developed into elite pro bowlers like Sherman while many others have found great fits as rotational role players.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by SirLK26

NC Skins, I wanted to ask you this question(s) before, when this thread was still active, but I kept forgetting.

So anyway, are you happy with how our new FO worked the draft? We traded back and picked up more chances twice, and while the value of the selections can be argued, we did add more chances for a hit. Or would you have rather us stayed at the top of each round and had a chance at a more talented player? Just wondering because you posted this thread and link after the draft, so I was curious whether you were praising this FO for the draft, or condemning our last regime(basically over one, albeit big, trade-up).

Edit: Partially asking because as we all know, Shanahan liked to trade back, sometimes to Redskins fans' chagrin. But I suppose when he seen a special QB talent like Griffin, he felt justified in moving up, even with the price he payed.

I personally love the trade back with Dallas and felt like they bent Dallas over the table on that trade. Minnesota only gave up a 4th rounder to move up 8-9 spots back into the first round and Dallas gave up their 3rd rounder to move up 12 spots. When you look at the trade chart values, we gave up our pick worth 560 points and picked up two selections that combined a total of 630. Minnesota only gave up a mere 18 points between their compensation they gave up to move up to a loftier spot. As far as who they picked? I'm not a scout so there is no way I can judge the picks these guys made. I didn't have a issue with any of the picks, but I felt that the Murphy pick was a luxury pick when it was made. It seems like we had greater needs than a OLB. /shrug


I understand why Mike made the trade, but I also think Mike was a bit desperate as well. I didn't agree with it at the time due to the mere compensation, but it wasn't because I didn't like the player in return. I probably would have been happier to stay where we were and picked Tannehill and kept our 2nd and future 1st rounders. That's just me though because I do value more picks.

As far as those "polls" on who won the trade. Well, it's irrelevant on who won the trade based on the players picked. Rams won the trade based on value and that's the bottom line. It could turn out that all of the Rams players flops and RGIII goes to the hall of fame. On the other hand, RGIII may end up flopping and all of the Rams players picked end up in the hall of fame. Last scenario, all players on both sides of the trade could end up flopping. Who won the trade is the moment compensation is traded, and that's purely looking at it from a numbers perspective.

Matty is right though. It's still way too early in declaring any "winners" between any of the players involved in the trade. Hell, look how many years Brees took to blossom or how long it took the Chargers to see any dividends on Rivers from the Eli trade.

One more thing, it takes more than having just "more" picks to be successful. You still need a competent GM/scouting staff that knows how to pick players for their schemes. You can give all the picks in the world to idiots like Vinny and still field a shitty team.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

IDK Dirtbag...I would imagine almost all NFL GM's would make that deal You have 4 really good starters there plus Bailey has serious potential.

I imagine the exact opposite, I dont think any would make that trade.

Greg Robinson hasnt played yet
As far as Steadman's potential, potential will get you fired.
Janoris Jenkins is a decent to above average corner.
Michael Brockers and Alec Ogletree aren't anything to write home about right now.

[SirLK26]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I personally love the trade back with Dallas and felt like they bent Dallas over the table on that trade. Minnesota only gave up a 4th rounder to move up 8-9 spots back into the first round and Dallas gave up their 3rd rounder to move up 12 spots. When you look at the trade chart values, we gave up our pick worth 560 points and picked up two selections that combined a total of 630. Minnesota only gave up a mere 18 points between their compensation they gave up to move up to a loftier spot. As far as who they picked? I'm not a scout so there is no way I can judge the picks these guys made. I didn't have a issue with any of the picks, but I felt that the Murphy pick was a luxury pick when it was made. It seems like we had greater needs than a OLB. /shrug


I understand why Mike made the trade, but I also think Mike was a bit desperate as well. I didn't agree with it at the time due to the mere compensation, but it wasn't because I didn't like the player in return. I probably would have been happier to stay where we were and picked Tannehill and kept our 2nd and future 1st rounders. That's just me though because I do value more picks.

As far as those "polls" on who won the trade. Well, it's irrelevant on who won the trade based on the players picked. Rams won the trade based on value and that's the bottom line. It could turn out that all of the Rams players flops and RGIII goes to the hall of fame. On the other hand, RGIII may end up flopping and all of the Rams players picked end up in the hall of fame. Last scenario, all players on both sides of the trade could end up flopping. Who won the trade is the moment compensation is traded, and that's purely looking at it from a numbers perspective.

Matty is right though. It's still way too early in declaring any "winners" between any of the players involved in the trade. Hell, look how many years Brees took to blossom or how long it took the Chargers to see any dividends on Rivers from the Eli trade.

One more thing, it takes more than having just "more" picks to be successful. You still need a competent GM/scouting staff that knows how to pick players for their schemes. You can give all the picks in the world to idiots like Vinny and still field a shitty team.

Thanks.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Well no doubt its solid and I genuinely believe that if Bradford stays healthy the trade will be one of the few win-wins in NFL history. However in terms of the players the Rams got, the way I feel is we've kind of had that caliber of players before and the best that happened was we eeked into the playoffs (Chris Samuals, Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington, Cornelius Griffin, and Randle-El (728 Yards in 07)). So it would be great to have those types of players but without a QB we wouldn't be a serious contender.

Granted again its not an apples to apples comparison as the Rams guys are younger not to mention different kinds of players but I honestly feel that the two most critical elements to winning a Super Bowl in this day and age are a top flight QB and Defense. And as tough as it is to put together an elite defense finding a QB the caliber of RG3 is exponentially harder.

I mean not to diminish the Seahawks scouting department but that number 1 ranked defense is essentially filled with guys who were no bodies going into the league. Some developed into elite pro bowlers like Sherman while many others have found great fits as rotational role players.

This is where we see it differently. I didn't see RG3, as a pro prospect, head and shoulders above Wilson, Foles, Tannehill or even Cousins.

[Gary84Clark]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

This is where we see it differently. I didn't see RG3, as a pro prospect, head and shoulders above Wilson, Foles, Tannehill or even Cousins.

we know you want cousin to be our QB , glad you not in charge.

[Gary84Clark]

How many will the Rams keep pass their rookie contracts?