Patrick Ramsey's Future

dirtbag2112 · 06-01-2005, 11:29 AM

Yeah Ramsey made a poor decision in the final minutes of that Eagles game...but you know what? He was trying to win. I've seen guys like Peyton Manning and Brett Favre make even worse decisions in even bigger games.

TheMalcolmConnection · 06-01-2005, 11:30 AM

Very true. But I also see Manning and Favre make a lot of game WINNING plays. I think that's really the only thing Ramsey is lacking.

But to be perfectly fair to him, his supporting cast has been somewhat lacking until recently.

skinsguy · 06-01-2005, 11:35 AM

That's true! When you don't have pro bowl type of players on the receiving end, then it makes it harder for a QB to take chances - winds up making the QB look that much worse! A QB like Farve or Manning can take stupid chances because they are confident enough to know that they will get another shot and eventually their taking chances pays off.

Alot of Ramsey's poor decisions come from lack of experience. He'll continue to make some mistakes this year, but I believe the mistakes will decrease as the year continues.....at least assuming Ramsey doesn't get hurt or becomes ineffective. If so, look out..here comes Brunell! That is what it's important for us to have a mammoth running game so we don't have to pass the ball...LOL!!!

TheMalcolmConnection · 06-01-2005, 11:44 AM

I don't know. Ramsey has plenty of experience for a starting QB.

Gmanc711 · 06-01-2005, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I don't know. Ramsey has plenty of experience for a starting QB.

For one of the few times, I actually disagree. When you look at all of his actual starts, it comes up to somthing like 23 games, which is only a season and a half. When you look at the fact that he was in different systems as well, it really takes away from his experiance. I think this year is his make or break year, I think he has had enough experiance to make it his make or break year, but I dont think he has had enough experiance to blame past mistakes on having experiance already. If that makes sense. Its tough to explain what I mean.

TheMalcolmConnection · 06-01-2005, 12:11 PM

No, it definitely makes sense. I didn't go into detail about what I meant, but pretty much I agree. I don't blame him for making mistakes, but I DO think he has enough gametime experience for this to be his year to prove he can do it.

celts32 · 06-01-2005, 12:17 PM

It seems pretty clear that Ramsey has the job for 2 years at which point they will need to make a decision. If Rasmey plays great they will probably resign him, but if he is just so so they will either let him leave for nothing or put a tag on him and trade him. The only way Gibbs will hand this thing over the Campbell before the 2 years is up is if Ramsey is a trainwreck and then that would not be a bad thing anyway.

dirtbag2112 · 06-01-2005, 12:33 PM

Did any of you guys catch the NFL network playbook in wich they broke down draft picks from 2002? Anyways when they got to QB's they gave Ramsey a lot of credit. Even though Carr and Harrington were drafted higher they like Patrick. Despite being in two night and day systems, he has a better winning percentage than both of those guys. I'm just rambling guys...I'm a huge Ramsey fan.

gortiz · 06-01-2005, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtbag2112

Did any of you guys catch the NFL network playbook in wich they broke down draft picks from 2002? Anyways when they got to QB's they gave Ramsey a lot of credit. Even though Carr and Harrington were drafted higher they like Patrick. Despite being in two night and day systems, he has a better winning percentage than both of those guys. I'm just rambling guys...I'm a huge Ramsey fan.

I have always said that we have drafted the best QB since 2002! And that includes Leftwich. Looking at the numbers, PR is better than all of them, Carr, Harrington, Leftwich. . .this, coming from a casual RamseyFan.

We will be in for a classic Beltway QB controversy the start of next year. I'm saying the start of next year cause I do believe Ramsey will have a serviceable/breakout season, over 20 TD's and less than 15 picks, over 3250 yards.

And please, lets let Campbell chill for a year or two, this guy has PROVEN ZERO! Nothing! Has he put on pads?? I read that WP post article on him and got chills all over! But lets be realistic, he is still a long shot. . .at this point. Now if he throws 5 TD's and 0 picks in limited preseason play, I'll start drinking the kool-aid. ha ha ha ha ha

Daseal · 06-01-2005, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Gibbs has always been the type that doesn't mind QB controversy, he thinks having two real good QBs is a great problem to have. I don't think he has "a guy", he just wants to have a couple good ones on hand, and he'll end up playing the best one. Simple as that. I don't think he brought in Campbell with the intention of trading Ramsey, and I don't think he views Campbell as Ramsey's automatic successor. He's just going to give them both a shot, evaluate them, and play the best one.

Gibbs may like that, but our salary cap doesn't. I seriously doubt Ramsey would resign a contract, especially a cheap one, to stay as the #2 here in DC.

Quote:

Look, Ramsey's gotta step up already, no more development. He's been in the league long enough that it's now time to perform; the expectations are the same for Joey Harrington and David Carr this year.

The difference is Harrington and Carr don't get yanked out of the lineup consistantly. Ramsey needs AT LEAST a full year to play and get in his rhythm.

Schneed10 · 06-01-2005, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

Gibbs may like that, but our salary cap doesn't. I seriously doubt Ramsey would resign a contract, especially a cheap one, to stay as the #2 here in DC.

Definitely. I'm sure he'll take the best deal he can get, whether it's here or anywhere else. If I were him, the only way I'd agree to come back to the Redskins is if they offered me more money than anyone else. If I'm going to be pushed by Campbell, I'd think that's not the ideal situation, so I'm going to want to be paid a lot to deal with that.
But Campbell isn't going to command a high-dollar contract as a late 1st rounder. His cap number will probably be in the $2 - $3 million per season range, probably closer to the $2. And his contract will probably last 4-5 years. So strictly from a QB perspective, we wouldn't be busting the budget if we signed Ramsey to a big dollar contract two years from now to be our starter. We could still keep Campbell around at his rookie rate and we'd be OK. Of course, this all assumes that we have cut Mark Brunell and cleared his dead money off our books by this point.
You're right, that is a relatively big QB budget compared to most teams, but it's not like we'd have Jason Campbell and Peyton Manning's $14 million per season.

skinsguy · 06-01-2005, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

The difference is Harrington and Carr don't get yanked out of the lineup consistantly. Ramsey needs AT LEAST a full year to play and get in his rhythm.

Ramsey hasn't gotten yanked out of the lineup consistantly. Since he started last year, he stayed in for the rest of the season and impressed coach Gibbs enough to be named the undisputed starter for the 2005 season.

I do agree though, he does need a full year to play and get in his rhythm. This also includes him staying away from injuries.

sportscurmudgeon · 06-01-2005, 04:57 PM

The question is about Ramsey's future - presumably here in Washington.

First, I continue to believe that Joe Gibbs is uncomfortable with Patrick Ramsey as the QB of this team. Remember back to the time when Gibbs was hired. He had been here about two weeks and said that he and the coaching staff had looked at the films from the year before (Spurrier II) and they were amazed to see who the previous regime had in the starting positions. Then, the FIRST thing that Gibbs did was to go out and woo Mark Brunell to agree to come here in a trade. Bad sign...

Then Gibbs played Brunell forever and a week last year until it became embarrassing - and then he went to Ramsey. But even with Ramsey showing improvement - note I did not say he was great nor did I say he projected to be a Pro Bowl contender this year - the Skins spent a lot of capital to move to a position to draft Jason Campbell to play QB. They did not use that pick with the intention that Jason Campbell will be a clipboard holder for three or four years. They took a QB because they think they need an upgrade at that position.

[Aside: Scouts and reporters are oohing and ahhing about how wonderfully Jason Campbell throws the ball in camp. Swell. I do recall that when Ramsey was drafted, the scouts and the reporters AND Sonny Jurgensen who knows something about throwing a ball were going into orgasmic raptures about how great Ramsey's arm was. Moral: Wait till you see offensive players in a game against defenses that are NFL caliber before entering a rapturous state.]

Here's what Ramsey needs to do to be a success on this team in this season:

Option #1: Skins win the NFC East Division Title. Doesn't matter what the record is, if the Skins are the Division Champs, Ramsey as the QB for the team is a success. The bottom lime is winning; it trumps ALL the other stats. The corrolary to this is that once in the playoffs, Ramsey cannot play so badly that he embarrasses the team; no bed-wetting is allowed in the playoffs

Option #2: Skins do not win the Division so we have to look at stats to measure Ramsey's progress and justify his continued existence in DC:

QB Rating: Minimum acceptable is 80. Good season is 85-87.

TD/ INT Ratio: Minimum acceptable is 2. Good season is 2.2

Red Zone effeiciency: Average points per Red Zone posession would be 4 to be minimally acceptable. Good season would be 4.5.

3rd down efficiency: Minimum acceptable is 40%. Good season is 44-46%.

Fumbles - whether lost or recovered - must be less than 10 for the year.

Yards gained per pass attempt: [note: that is not per completion!] Minimum acceptable is 7. Good season is 8.5-9.0.

MTK · 06-01-2005, 01:13 PM

Ramsey has a decent amount of experience, but it's come in two very different systems and he's been yanked in and out of the lineup.

This will be a no excuses year for him. The job is his to lose. This is the year we find out if Ramsey is the QB we can continue to build the team around, or will Gibbs be looking to hand the reins over to Campbell next year.

Longtimefan · 06-01-2005, 01:52 PM

I have been trying very hard to determine what the future holds for Patrick Ramsey here with the Redskins, if indeed he has one. I have no problem with PR but it seems as if the coaching staff of the Redskins don't seem to have quite as much faith in him as many of us seem too. It dosen't seem a coincedence that last year Brunell was brought in with a large salry to supplant Patrick. This year we trade three players (including a first) on a QB which will demand a sizeable contract to be a back-up QB. I can't see a future with three high salaried QB's though many seem to think Brunell will be gone. It just dosen't seem likely that the Redskins would go through great lengths to draft a QB in the first round with no intention of starting him at some point in time. Something has to give, we cant start PR and JC, therefore I'm quite interested in seeing how this one is going to play out.

06-01-2005, 11:35 AM	#3
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future That's true! When you don't have pro bowl type of players on the receiving end, then it makes it harder for a QB to take chances - winds up making the QB look that much worse! A QB like Farve or Manning can take stupid chances because they are confident enough to know that they will get another shot and eventually their taking chances pays off. Alot of Ramsey's poor decisions come from lack of experience. He'll continue to make some mistakes this year, but I believe the mistakes will decrease as the year continues.....at least assuming Ramsey doesn't get hurt or becomes ineffective. If so, look out..here comes Brunell! That is what it's important for us to have a mammoth running game so we don't have to pass the ball...LOL!!! __________________ "Fire Up That Diesel!"

06-01-2005, 11:44 AM	#4
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future I don't know. Ramsey has plenty of experience for a starting QB. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

06-01-2005, 12:11 PM	#6
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future No, it definitely makes sense. I didn't go into detail about what I meant, but pretty much I agree. I don't blame him for making mistakes, but I DO think he has enough gametime experience for this to be his year to prove he can do it. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

06-01-2005, 12:17 PM	#7
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 55 Posts: 2,665	Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future It seems pretty clear that Ramsey has the job for 2 years at which point they will need to make a decision. If Rasmey plays great they will probably resign him, but if he is just so so they will either let him leave for nothing or put a tag on him and trade him. The only way Gibbs will hand this thing over the Campbell before the 2 years is up is if Ramsey is a trainwreck and then that would not be a bad thing anyway.

06-01-2005, 12:33 PM	#8
dirtbag2112 Special Teams Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 293	Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future Did any of you guys catch the NFL network playbook in wich they broke down draft picks from 2002? Anyways when they got to QB's they gave Ramsey a lot of credit. Even though Carr and Harrington were drafted higher they like Patrick. Despite being in two night and day systems, he has a better winning percentage than both of those guys. I'm just rambling guys...I'm a huge Ramsey fan.

06-01-2005, 11:29 AM	#1
dirtbag2112 Special Teams Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 293	Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future Yeah Ramsey made a poor decision in the final minutes of that Eagles game...but you know what? He was trying to win. I've seen guys like Peyton Manning and Brett Favre make even worse decisions in even bigger games.

06-01-2005, 11:30 AM	#2
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future Very true. But I also see Manning and Favre make a lot of game WINNING plays. I think that's really the only thing Ramsey is lacking. But to be perfectly fair to him, his supporting cast has been somewhat lacking until recently. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

06-01-2005, 04:57 PM	#13
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future The question is about Ramsey's future - presumably here in Washington. First, I continue to believe that Joe Gibbs is uncomfortable with Patrick Ramsey as the QB of this team. Remember back to the time when Gibbs was hired. He had been here about two weeks and said that he and the coaching staff had looked at the films from the year before (Spurrier II) and they were amazed to see who the previous regime had in the starting positions. Then, the FIRST thing that Gibbs did was to go out and woo Mark Brunell to agree to come here in a trade. Bad sign... Then Gibbs played Brunell forever and a week last year until it became embarrassing - and then he went to Ramsey. But even with Ramsey showing improvement - note I did not say he was great nor did I say he projected to be a Pro Bowl contender this year - the Skins spent a lot of capital to move to a position to draft Jason Campbell to play QB. They did not use that pick with the intention that Jason Campbell will be a clipboard holder for three or four years. They took a QB because they think they need an upgrade at that position. [Aside: Scouts and reporters are oohing and ahhing about how wonderfully Jason Campbell throws the ball in camp. Swell. I do recall that when Ramsey was drafted, the scouts and the reporters AND Sonny Jurgensen who knows something about throwing a ball were going into orgasmic raptures about how great Ramsey's arm was. Moral: Wait till you see offensive players in a game against defenses that are NFL caliber before entering a rapturous state.] Here's what Ramsey needs to do to be a success on this team in this season: Option #1: Skins win the NFC East Division Title. Doesn't matter what the record is, if the Skins are the Division Champs, Ramsey as the QB for the team is a success. The bottom lime is winning; it trumps ALL the other stats. The corrolary to this is that once in the playoffs, Ramsey cannot play so badly that he embarrasses the team; no bed-wetting is allowed in the playoffs Option #2: Skins do not win the Division so we have to look at stats to measure Ramsey's progress and justify his continued existence in DC: QB Rating: Minimum acceptable is 80. Good season is 85-87. TD/ INT Ratio: Minimum acceptable is 2. Good season is 2.2 Red Zone effeiciency: Average points per Red Zone posession would be 4 to be minimally acceptable. Good season would be 4.5. 3rd down efficiency: Minimum acceptable is 40%. Good season is 44-46%. Fumbles - whether lost or recovered - must be less than 10 for the year. Yards gained per pass attempt: [note: that is not per completion!] Minimum acceptable is 7. Good season is 8.5-9.0. __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

06-01-2005, 01:13 PM	#14
MTK Hail Raiser Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 53 Posts: 100,049	Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future Ramsey has a decent amount of experience, but it's come in two very different systems and he's been yanked in and out of the lineup. This will be a no excuses year for him. The job is his to lose. This is the year we find out if Ramsey is the QB we can continue to build the team around, or will Gibbs be looking to hand the reins over to Campbell next year. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

06-01-2005, 01:52 PM	#15
Longtimefan Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Germantown, Md. Posts: 4,832	Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future I have been trying very hard to determine what the future holds for Patrick Ramsey here with the Redskins, if indeed he has one. I have no problem with PR but it seems as if the coaching staff of the Redskins don't seem to have quite as much faith in him as many of us seem too. It dosen't seem a coincedence that last year Brunell was brought in with a large salry to supplant Patrick. This year we trade three players (including a first) on a QB which will demand a sizeable contract to be a back-up QB. I can't see a future with three high salaried QB's though many seem to think Brunell will be gone. It just dosen't seem likely that the Redskins would go through great lengths to draft a QB in the first round with no intention of starting him at some point in time. Something has to give, we cant start PR and JC, therefore I'm quite interested in seeing how this one is going to play out.

Patrick Ramsey's Future

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