Putting Things in Perspective

[EternalEnigma21]

Originally Posted by crlesh

...or for Jessica Simpson's butt turning flat again...

I dont know, we may have to look at cooley for that one :FIREdevil lol

[scowan]

You know guys, one thing that has not been mentioned a lot in this thread is how Ramsey did not have Portis much Saturday night. I don't want Portis hurt, so there is no need to have him in there much, and Betts played pretty well, but I think a heavy dose of Portis will help Ramsey a great deal. Gibbs has never really had a Superstar at QB, but he has always had a stud RB, except for maybe Byner and Byner was above average at least. For the most part Ramsey made good reads and had good stats. The only thing that needs to happen if for the Skins to score more. We did not run any reverses or trick plays or anything very exciting and the Panthers did some of those things and almost scored on one reverse (down at the one).

Our defense will look better this week with more DBs and LA playing and I would be surprised if the Skins give up 28 points again during the preseason.

[Kope]

You know guys, one thing that has not been mentioned a lot in this thread is how Ramsey did not have Portis much Saturday night. I don't want Portis hurt, so there is no need to have him in there much, and Betts played pretty well, but I think a heavy dose of Portis will help Ramsey a great deal. Gibbs has never really had a Superstar at QB, but he has always had a stud RB, except for maybe Byner and Byner was above average at least. For the most part Ramsey made good reads and had good stats. The only thing that needs to happen if for the Skins to score more. We did not run any reverses or trick plays or anything very exciting and the Panthers did some of those things and almost scored on one reverse (down at the one).

Good point. I think PR will be fine, but I don't think there will be an enormus change in the offense. It will just be enough better so we win what we lost last year by a TD.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by scowan

You know guys, one thing that has not been mentioned a lot in this thread is how Ramsey did not have Portis much Saturday night. I don't want Portis hurt, so there is no need to have him in there much, and Betts played pretty well, but I think a heavy dose of Portis will help Ramsey a great deal.

Yeah, but the problem is, you're going to have to resort to an all-out passing attack at some point during the season. Sometimes, the running game will be stymied, you'll get behind in the 4th quarter, and that's when you've got to be able to open it up through the air.

Portis isn't going to be there for all 16 games to save the day. There's two essential elements to moving the ball -- running and passing. Right now, we're OK with running it (and I stress OK, with Portis' 3.8 ypc average last year) and we're darn near dreadful passing it.

My guess is that Gibbs wanted to come out blazing to get a good first look at his QBs and wideouts and find out how much they've ascertained through all the minicamps during the offseason, and training camp so far.

It seems there are a few Redskins fans struggling to find excuses for another 10 point performance of which absolutely zero were engineered by Ramsey and the first teamers.

[Kope]

It seems there are a few Redskins fans struggling to find excuses for another 10 point performance of which absolutely zero were engineered by Ramsey and the first teamers.

I wouldn't call it excuses untill the games count for something. Pre-season is the worst time for hyper-analysis. I would not be anymore or less optomistic if they went 40-0. I hope Gibbs gives PR 4 games in the real season, he earned it last year.

I do agree, however, that if he has not played well after 4 weeks he drops to #3 on the depth chart (yes I would rather have the Rook get experience than go back to a benched PR).

Bottom line for me is: In the last 5 games last year PR went 3-2. One of those losses he put us in the position to win but the defense gave up the game. The other he lost was a close game in Philly (3 points. I know he blew a throw late but we were in it w/ a superbowl team)

If he plays like he did in the last 5 games of last year, our line plays better(Rabach) and our special teams get better we will win 10 + games and have a shot at the division or a wild card.

I think folks forget that for the first time since Gibbs left (that I can remember) at the end of last year we beat teams we should and lost close games to good teams. We dont need quantum leaps to win 10. we need to get just a little bit better

[Kope]

For the last 5 games in 2004 PR was a 69% passer w/ 7 TDs, 4 INTs and a 94.9 passer rating.

I think that at least deserves 4 games this season befor I bash him

[JWsleep]

Good posts, Kope. I agree.

ABout the 10 points, Beem--and this is a serious problem we had last year as well--our TO ratio is terrible. Last year, we simply KILLED ourselves with TOs--TOs that either took points off the board for us (in our redzone), or TOs that led directly or very quickly to scores by opponents (TOs in their redzone). That happened on Saturday (Ramsey had one; one was late; but the others took points off the board). And we didn't generate any TOs--the only real knock on our D last year: TOs and points scored.

There are some very, very basic stats in the NFL concerning TOs and wins. -4 and you lose 95% of the time or something. The TOs kill our ball control/field posistion game--they just rip the heart out of it. When we fix this, we will begin to win close games. Ramsey needs to be efficient, not turn it over, and hit the long one a few times a game when it's there--he does not need to be Peyton Manning; he needs to be Mark Rypien. I think he can do that, but we'll see--I agree with Kope: 4 games (at least!).

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

I dont know if anyone would consider anything that happened in 2003 legitimate ... No one is making excuses for ramsey because no one sould have to after the first preseason game of the season.

The first preseason game for Ramsey was also the first preseason game for Jake Delhomme and Chris Weinke -- both of whom looked astoundingly better than Patrick Ramsey.

Your statement about 2003 not being "legitimate" is purely subjective, and qualifies only as an opinion. That Patrick Ramsey did, in fact, win the starting job in 2003 is indisputable fact; and completely destroys the notion that this year -- 2005 -- is Ramsey's first year starting as a rookie.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Kope

I wouldn't call it excuses untill the games count for something. Pre-season is the worst time for hyper-analysis.

The fact that this is preseason doesn't change the way people are trying to defend Patrick Ramsey for his performance in Saturday's contest against Carolina. Exhibition games or not, excuses are still excuses. And this is not "hyper-analysis". It's calling it like it is: Patrick Ramsey, along with the rest of the starters could not advance the ball consistently, or score points against the Panther starters, nor the second teamers as Gibbs let them continue to play into the second quarter in a desperate attempt to get some semblance of a "drive" on which to build confidence.

And don't take this criticism to mean that I'm calling for Ramsey's head. Like you, I'm willing to give him the rest of the preseason, and 4 or 5 games into the regular season before letting someone else give it a shot.

But just the same, I'm not going to try to blow smoke up my own ass by saying that there were "plenty of positives" on Saturday's game, that it made me "confident", or go back to the disaster that was the 2004 season and say "wow, look what Ramsey did in the final five games!"

[scowan]

You are right about the turnovers, but Ramsey only made one. Two were made by Campbell who won't start for awhile and one was made by a guy who won't make the team. The one turnover by Ramsey was as good as a punt because it was a long interception. The bottom line on the game, was our starters could not score against the Panther's starters, which was distrurbing. The Panthers made some good drives against a depleaded Redskin's defense, not the one that was 1st in the NFC last year. And the turnovers our non-starters commited gave them great field position, which lead to points. Even at that, one of the Panther's scores took 11 plays to go 22 yards because the Redskins D was not playing smart.

I'm not worried yet. A good outing on Friday and this message board's tone will change considerably

[GoSkins!]

Originally Posted by crlesh

Before too long we'll be blaming Ramsey or Brunell (take your pick) for all sorts of things... like for McDonald's weak breakfast hours, or cold toilet seats, or for Jessica Simpson's butt turning flat again...

I knew it. I knew it... it is all Brunells fault...

[12thMan]

I don't get all the concern with PR. It seems like we won't be completely happy with this guy unless he's completing 90% of his passes or he's transformed into Dan Marino overnight - neither of which is going to happen.

I think by and large the quaterback that we have seen in the past, and perhaps in this last game, is the pretty much the quaterback that we'll see this season. PR willl probably be a very good, solid quaterback throughout his career with a few 3,000+ yd seasons to show for it. His reading of defenses and some mechanics may improve some, but I don't think he'll ever be what we would consider a prolific passer.

It's only one preseason game....and it wasn't a bad game. I think we should just chill a little until the real "game day" get's here. Provided he stays healthy, he'll have a good solid year.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I don't get all the concern with PR. It seems like we won't be completely happy with this guy unless he's completing 90% of his passes or he's transformed into Dan Marino overnight - neither of which is going to happen.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Some people aren't going to be happy unless he's flawless. Obviously he's never going to live up to some people's expectations. All I can say is thank god the fans don't run the team, otherwise we'd be starting a rookie, Ramsey would probably be traded, and Tim Hasselbeck would be the backup until Campbell throws a pick... and then he would be yanked and probably immediately traded.

[EternalEnigma21]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

The first preseason game for Ramsey was also the first preseason game for Jake Delhomme and Chris Weinke -- both of whom looked astoundingly better than Patrick Ramsey.

Your statement about 2003 not being "legitimate" is purely subjective, and qualifies only as an opinion. That Patrick Ramsey did, in fact, win the starting job in 2003 is indisputable fact; and completely destroys the notion that this year -- 2005 -- is Ramsey's first year starting as a rookie.

It was also the first preseason game for McNabb, Plummer, Losman, Harrington, and Rothlesburger. Those are the guys I saw that had pretty sub par performances in their first preseason game. I wonder If they're having QB contraversies? (I know harrington is... i'll save you the correction lol) Delhomme and Weinke are pretty sub-par QBs. If we're comparing, McNabb finished with a lower completion percentage than Ramsey 64% as opposed to 67% with one more TD and more yards, but 1.6257x the passes. McNabb threw a pick on his first pass.

Yes it is subjective, and thats why I said "I don't know if anyone would consider..." At this point you're being redundant. Of course it's subjective. If you didn't post anything subjective, this would be a news article. Just stats,facts, and maybe some history; no banter or opinion. Another fact that escapes you is that fact itself doesn't "destroy" notions. One can actually base a notion on ideas, and opinions, and sustain it through all facts. You ever watch the O.J. trial? A lot of non-fact notions came out on top there lol. (I just completely discredited my argument, I know lol)

[EternalEnigma21]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I'm not going to try to blow smoke up my own ass by saying that there were "plenty of positives" on Saturday's game, that it made me "confident", or go back to the disaster that was the 2004 season and say "wow, look what Ramsey did in the final five games!"

Sir I believe that trying to blow anything up your own ass would be subjective. Furthermore what ramsey did do last season has to be taken into consideration when evaluating his performance. His stats are among the highest in the league for those last five games. 3-2, and coming really close in those two, makes me think, maybe we get off his back and stop trying to put things in our asses.