O Line

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

How? The running game looked good. The passing game looked bad, but I think that was more of a reflection of no one getting open.

It was the worst game I have ever seen Jansen play for one. He got beat around the end several times. They made Burgess look like Reggie White. I know you watch the games closely Ramsey so i am not going to say otherwise, but I really thought the pass protection was terrible.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by celts32

It was the worst game I have ever seen Jansen play for one. He got beat around the end several times. They made Burgess look like Reggie White. I know you watch the games closely Ramsey so i am not going to say otherwise, but I really thought the pass protection was terrible.

I watched the game again celts and I noticed a few things about pass protection. First, you're absolutely right in saying that Burgess looked like Reggie White. Burgess had a heck of a game with two sacks and one forced fumble.

On Burgess' first sack he just ran over Robert Royal to get to Brunell. If Royal was assigned to block Burgess, that is a problem with the blocking assignments (which presumably comes down from the coaches) and not with the O-line (as Royal isn't an offensive lineman). On Burgess' second sack, he just went around Jansen. That sack was all on Jansen. However, it was also on 4th down in a passing situation. Moreover, I don't think it's right to judge an O-line based on a single, albeit critical, down.

Second, on several plays in which Brunell was pressured he had held the ball in excess of 5 seconds. I'm not going to say that Brunell holds the ball too long; he's pretty good about throwing the ball away when there is no one to throw to. But, I think a lot of heat generated on Brunell was the result of coverage. I don't think you can expect an O-line to hold up against a pass-rush for more than 4 or 5 seconds.

Third, by midway through the 3rd quarter Brunell had only been sacked once and knocked down twice. That's not too bad.

Fourth, while the Raiders' defense leaves a lot to be desired, their front four is pretty good. In fact, their defensive linemen have 18 sacks (as many as the Carolina Panthers' linemen have and 4 more than the Bucs' linemen have). They have Ben Hamilton and Derrick Burgess (who is second in the league with 9 sacks) on the edges and Warren Sapp (who is having a "comeback" year in the Raiders' new 4-3 defense) and Ted Washington on the inside.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

I watched the game again celts and I noticed a few things about pass protection. First, you're absolutely right in saying that Burgess looked like Reggie White. Burgess had a heck of a game with two sacks and one forced fumble.

On Burgess' first sack he just ran over Robert Royal to get to Brunell. If Royal was assigned to block Burgess, that is a problem with the blocking assignments (which presumably comes down from the coaches) and not with the O-line (as Royal isn't an offensive lineman). On Burgess' second sack, he just went around Jansen. That sack was all on Jansen. However, it was also on 4th down in a passing situation. Moreover, I don't think it's right to judge an O-line based on a single, albeit critical, down.

Second, on several plays in which Brunell was pressured he had held the ball in excess of 5 seconds. I'm not going to say that Brunell holds the ball too long; he's pretty good about throwing the ball away when there is no one to throw to. But, I think a lot of heat generated on Brunell was the result of coverage. I don't think you can expect an O-line to hold up against a pass-rush for more than 4 or 5 seconds.

Third, by midway through the 3rd quarter Brunell had only been sacked once and knocked down twice. That's not too bad.

Fourth, while the Raiders' defense leaves a lot to be desired, their front four is pretty good. In fact, their defensive linemen have 18 sacks (as many as the Carolina Panthers' linemen have and 4 more than the Bucs' linemen have). They have Ben Hamilton and Derrick Burgess (who is second in the league with 9 sacks) on the edges and Warren Sapp (who is having a "comeback" year in the Raiders' new 4-3 defense) and Ted Washington on the inside.

I didn't rewatch the game. I usually do but this one I couldn't stomach so i have only seen it once. I do remember the one play you mentioned where Royal got beat one on one and I agree it's not one you can pin on the o-line. I just had a sense watching the game that the pass protection was not up to par. I remember thinking during the game how badly Jansen was playing. Are you saying the only time he was beaten in the game on pass protection was on the last play?

I did notice that Brunell held the ball longer than usual on some plays which is an indictment of the WR's. Moss was doubled just about every play and TJ only had 19 yards so that says all we need to know about him. Basically, if you rewatched the whole game and do not think the pass protection was a big problem I will take your word for it. All I have to go on is my impression during the live game and I felt like they were bad.