Skins @ Panthers gameday thread

[irish]

Originally Posted by NoCalHail

With a half a day to digest the game there's no reason to say the officiating "cost the game" but I do think with a good certainty that they definitely had a big part in swinging momentum at 3 specific points in the game on very sketchy borderline calls.

Call #1 - The Culliver call. This is the most obvious one, it takes points off the board. It was a big physical play that had the potential to turn the game in our favor or at least put the Panthers in a different position for the first time in the game. If they are calling THAT unnecessary roughness then how on earth did they not call the helmet to helmet hit on Reed on our series before? The defender dove into Reed helmet first and speared him and there was no call.

Call #2 On that Panthers drive that continued because of Call #1 (I believe it was that drive) Panthers were 2nd and goal and the pass is incomplete, setting up a 3rd and goal....oh except they call illegal contact on another very weak justification. This gives the Panthers 1st and goal and they end up with a TD. I'd say this one was more of a "who knows what would have happened" type call because the Panthers did still have 3rd down to score, but if our defense holds and they kick a FG it is a big deal for the defense.

Call #3 - another obvious one, the phantom "hold" by Reed on Cousins's scramble to the 4 yard line to setup 1st and goal. I'm sorry by Reed's arms weren't extended and when you are body to body you can have the jersey in the shoulder pad area. Just another razor thin call that takes away a huge play. 1st and goal, could cut the game to 21-28 going into half time.

Like I said, we don't win the game merely because these calls don't happen, but it really seemed like the team was dejected after this series of events as the game went from competitive to a laugher within half a quarter of play.

The NFL has to do something about the over-officiating, its starting to make the games unwatchable. To me the constant barrage of flags is killing the excitement and flow of the game and after call 3 I turned off the game because I just couldn't take watching the refs continue to insert themselves into the game with ticky-tack calls.

[sdskinsfan2001]

Cousins doesn't play well against the Giants. Morris needs at least 25 carries. Pound the ball and double team Beckham. 2 keys to game.

[sdskinsfan2001]

I'm moving on from this last game. Ready for Thanksgiving and pounding the Giants!

[NoCalHail]

One thing I am really tired of is seeing these tall tight ends dip their head/helmet downward to brace for impact against a defender and then the defender gets called for a blow to the head. To me it absolutely must be factored in as to which player is initiating the contact to the helmet.

They did this with RB's already, where they aren't allowed to use their helmet to drive into a defender (although it goes uncalled all the time).

It's like the NFL has come to the conclusion that every single injury ever is caused by the defense.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by irish

The NFL has to do something about the over-officiating, its starting to make the games unwatchable. To me the constant barrage of flags is killing the excitement and flow of the game and after call 3 I turned off the game because I just couldn't take watching the refs continue to insert themselves into the game with ticky-tack calls.

Amen!

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by irish

The NFL has to do something about the over-officiating, its starting to make the games unwatchable. To me the constant barrage of flags is killing the excitement and flow of the game and after call 3 I turned off the game because I just couldn't take watching the refs continue to insert themselves into the game with ticky-tack calls.

I feel the same way.

[Michaelt31]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Poor tackling and undisciplined penalties definitely land square in the laps of the coaches.

I think we've got a pretty average coaching staff. Give them elite talent and they'll get outsmarted in the playoffs by the best coaches.

Jay knows how to scheme an offense and keep the chains moving. But the staff doesn't keep the team disciplined enough to avoid penalties. Players stop pursuing plays when they think their teammate has made a tackle, there's no discipline there.

Gregg Williams made sure there were always 6 Redskins meeting at the ball carrier. That's not happening here. I'm definitely not satisfied with the coaching staff.

I totally agree, he look likes the next Bill Walsh against a college defense. This guy doesn't demand perfect from his players. The offsides, the uniforms fines, and the inconsistency of the way he play players. If you pick one player over another one b/c he is better to play qb, then why don't you drop one who can't tackle over another one. The leadership is terrible, he will probably win Sunday or the Monday night game. But he will never get us over the top. Best to move on after the season and regroup with a move leadership style coach as we get rid of these me first type of guys!

[calia]

Looking over the schedules, Dallas and Philly are in trouble, and I think the division comes down to the Redskins and Giants.

Dallas probably has 3 more losses (and maybe more) in its future. They play: Panthers (10-0), Packers (7-3), Jets (5-5), Bills (5-4), and Redskins (4-6) twice. I don't see them beating the Panthers, Packers and both the Bills and Jets (even taking us out of the mix). That puts them at 10 losses and out of contention.

The Eagles situation is arguably worse. They will probably lose at least 3 more and possibly more, as they play: Lions (3-7), Patriots (9-0), Bills (5-4), Cardinals (8-2), Redskins (4-6), and Giants (5-5). I don't see them beating the Patriots, Bills or Cardinals, and right now I like our chances and the Giants' chances against them too. That puts them at 9 losses (or more).

The Giants are the team to beat, and we simply must win this weekend in order to be in contention. Their schedule is a bit tougher than ours, but we cannot assume we can lose to them twice and win the division. The play: Redskins (4-6), Jets (5-5), Dolphins (4-6), Panthers (10-0), Vikings (7-3), and Eagles (4-6). I figure they likely lose to the Panthers and Vikings, and maybe the Jets. So maybe 8 losses.

As I see it, we have to go 4-2 with one of those wins against the Giants if we are going to take the division. Our opponents have a combined record of 21-28: Giants (5-5), Bears (4-6), Bills (5-4), Eagles (4-6), and Cowboys (3-7) twice. If we can beat the Giants, I think we have to beat the Bears, Eagles, and Dallas (at least once), and then we're both at 8-8, with a better record in the NFC than the Giants.

Both teams ought to be thinking that this weekend's game will likely determine the winner of the NFC East. And I hope we come to play. Since we seem to play every other weekend, let's hope this weekend our D and running game decide to show up.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

players know this Offense coaching staff is a joke

You're a joke if you think the players think that and think we had a chance to run the ball effectively the way the game went down.

I don't get that vibe at all from talking to the players. Most believe in the system.

[irish]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I feel the same way.

Its getting to where I'm not enjoying watching any NFL games anymore.

[NoCalHail]

The thing about coaching is that it's more than X's & O's. Any and likely every scheme on offense is "designed to get players open" For as much as people complained about Kyle Shanahan, his offense got players open. McVay and Gruden's scheme "get players open" Unfortunately there is more to the big picture than someone being open on any given play.

To be quite honest, I liked Kyle Shanahan's offense a lot better than what we run now. I thought Kyle's biggest weakness was his actual playcalling within his own scheme. He often tried to get too cute when certain things were working, he'd go away from it for no reason. That could have been due to his youth/inexperience. However the scheme itself was very innovative and creative and was lacking the playmakers to make it really go. Just remember, during his tenure here Garcon was the #1 WR and Fred Davis was the tight end who was great when on his game but inconsistent and often injured. I tend to be one who thinks it was a shame he and his dad were hired to be on the same coaching staff because I think Kyle has a bright future in this league but was sacrificed when his daddy was fired.

[Bucket]

1 RB is out
2 RB fumbles once a game

You are down 2 possessions to a team who you can't stop on offense after halftime. You only had the ball for 21 snaps the first half.

Please continue to attempt to convince me that we abandoned the run game. The pass game and run game going hand in hand. You can't force the run game when you continue to put yourself in 2nd n 12 or 2nd n 11 down two possessions.

They didn't abandon the run. There just wasn't a running game. We had one last week. This is the development if a young inconsistent team with a below terrible Center.

Any team with a physical DT will continue to stuff our run game.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Bucket

You're a joke if you think the players think that and think we had a chance to run the ball effectively the way the game went down.

I don't get that vibe at all from talking to the players. Most believe in the system.

Trent said it, he believes in his running backs more than the staff does. So you disagree Jay gets pass happy? He's come out said it before.

So you think the second half of yesterday was well called game and well executed adjustments coming out the second half?

I don't understand, what says "great job" of getting blown the fuck out by the Jets, Giants, Patriots and now the Panthers?

You don't think Cousins, Jay and McVay should be improving as an offense? Your satisfied?

4 games of being blown-the-fuck-out out of 10 games...Jay Gruden, McVay and Cousins aren't rookies folks.

[sdskinsfan2001]

I know it's not how teams draft but I honestly wouldn't mind spending all 7 picks on defense this year. Mainly need to be able to get at least either a lock down corner or an explosive edge pass rusher. Ideally both if we could strike perfectly in 1st 2 rounds.

We had no rush at all a large majority of the game. And I think Breeland and Culliver are more like great #2s than good #1s.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by Bucket

1 RB is out
2 RB fumbles once a game

You are down 2 possessions to a team who you can't stop on offense after halftime. You only had the ball for 21 snaps the first half.

Please continue to attempt to convince me that we abandoned the run game. The pass game and run game going hand in hand. You can't force the run game when you continue to put yourself in 2nd n 12 or 2nd n 11 down two possessions.

They didn't abandon the run. There just wasn't a running game. We had one last week. This is the development if a young inconsistent team with a below terrible Center.

Any team with a physical DT will continue to stuff our run game.

Its pretty common knowledge that running sweeps against Carolina is really stupid due to there team speed on defense. What run play did we do a lot of yesterday? sweeps. It was a bad game plan accentuated by bad play calling. When you had one successful play and then watch the coaching staff refuse to do it again and go with what even a pop warner coach knows are bad plays, at least attempt to have a good game plan. If it doesnt work, so be it, but dont come out against that defense and try to do everything that they are known to stop better than most.

Even if the run fails, just simply doing it still means you cant tee off on the passing game if you still run it. It also means play action still has a chance. And btw, when a team goes full out on rushing the passer and caring about nothing else, try a screen. They were just teeing off on us and Jay was calling plays that benefits a defense in tee off on the QB mode. Jay is so hit or miss in his play calling. You cant defend that, it was pathetic to watch. Jay called one of his worst games of the year yesterday and got locked into calling plays that were benefiting Carolina more than us.