Redskins agree to trade for No.2 overall pick in 2012 Draft

[WaldSkins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Redskins are expected to get another 7th round pick. Don't ask me to explain how

What about a compensatory pick for Carlos Rogers or Stephon Heyer?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by WaldSkins

What about a compensatory pick for Carlos Rogers or Stephon Heyer?

Heyer was an undrafted free agent, so no pick

[SmootSmack]

It's not really from Rogers leaving, just extra picks the NFL hands out at the end of the draft

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Either way it's an additional pick.

[GTripp0012]

Here's what I'll say: if a quarterback of Robert Griffin's stature was this important to the success of the Washington Redskins under Mike Shanahan, then they should never have made the McNabb deal. They should have been willing to take their 2011 and 2012 1st rounders along with the 2010 second that went for McNabb and traded it to whomever for the quarterback they really wanted.

I realize Griffin is probably a better prospect then anyone they could have had in 2010, certainly better than Sam Bradford was in that draft, but they shouldn't have been worried about trading up for Bradford. They should have went out and got Rodgers or Flacco or Ryan or Roethlisberger (since he was on the trade block at the time) or Eli or Schaub or Palmer and frankly just admitted that they were incapable of winning without such a player.

There was no reason to waste two years waiting for the perfect prospect if you were just going to pay whatever it took to get him and ignore all historical context for the market anyway. Given what we know now, that was a brutal waste of two years.

Better late than never, I suppose, and Griffin is about as good as pro prospects get at this position. But it's hard to see this as anything but a huge admission of poor planning by the Shanahans who feel it's totally cool to spend draft picks which they are contractually obligated to use to build this team, though they were/are unlikely to actually be around when the picks will actually be made.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Here's what I'll say: if a quarterback of Robert Griffin's stature was this important to the success of the Washington Redskins under Mike Shanahan, then they should never have made the McNabb deal. They should have been willing to take their 2011 and 2012 1st rounders along with the 2010 second that went for McNabb and traded it to whomever for the quarterback they really wanted.

I realize Griffin is probably a better prospect then anyone they could have had in 2010, certainly better than Sam Bradford was in that draft, but they shouldn't have been worried about trading up for Bradford. They should have went out and got Rodgers or Flacco or Ryan or Roethlisberger (since he was on the trade block at the time) or Eli or Schaub or Palmer and frankly just admitted that they were incapable of winning without such a player.

There was no reason to waste two years waiting for the perfect prospect if you were just going to pay whatever it took to get him and ignore all historical context for the market anyway. Given what we know now, that was a brutal waste of two years.

Better late than never, I suppose, and Griffin is about as good as pro prospects get at this position. But it's hard to see this as anything but a huge admission of poor planning by the Shanahans who feel it's totally cool to spend draft picks which they are contractually obligated to use to build this team, though they were/are unlikely to actually be around when the picks will actually be made.

I wouldn't necessarily call it poor planning. Maybe (maybe) I would go as far as to say they were over-confident in their abilities to make this team a winner with the likes of McNabb or RG1 or John Beck. But you know, sometimes shit just doesn't work out the way you draw it up. They realized the past two years' experiments didn't work and the opportunity presented itself to get a potential superstar and they went "all in" as the saying goes. I think the price was high, but the more I look at it, the more I am ok with it. If not now, when...if not this guy, who...

I for one am excited and ready to see what else we can pull off between now and the end of April. There is legitimate reason to be pumped up about the Redskins this year and I can't wait until September.

[rypper11]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Here's what I'll say: if a quarterback of Robert Griffin's stature was this important to the success of the Washington Redskins under Mike Shanahan, then they should never have made the McNabb deal. They should have been willing to take their 2011 and 2012 1st rounders along with the 2010 second that went for McNabb and traded it to whomever for the quarterback they really wanted.

I realize Griffin is probably a better prospect then anyone they could have had in 2010, certainly better than Sam Bradford was in that draft, but they shouldn't have been worried about trading up for Bradford. They should have went out and got Rodgers or Flacco or Ryan or Roethlisberger (since he was on the trade block at the time) or Eli or Schaub or Palmer and frankly just admitted that they were incapable of winning without such a player.

There was no reason to waste two years waiting for the perfect prospect if you were just going to pay whatever it took to get him and ignore all historical context for the market anyway. Given what we know now, that was a brutal waste of two years.

Better late than never, I suppose, and Griffin is about as good as pro prospects get at this position. But it's hard to see this as anything but a huge admission of poor planning by the Shanahans who feel it's totally cool to spend draft picks which they are contractually obligated to use to build this team, though they were/are unlikely to actually be around when the picks will actually be made.

I appreciate your frustration, but perhaps it's more falling completely for RG3. If you feel that in 20 years RG3 will be entering Canton with 5 Super Bowl rings, wouldn't you want him to have played for you instead of someone else? The thought among a lot of NFL people is that Luck and RG3 are two once in a decade QB's. I think they overpaid, but if you think RG3 is a faster Tom Brady, what wouldn't you trade for him?

[celts32]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Here's what I'll say: if a quarterback of Robert Griffin's stature was this important to the success of the Washington Redskins under Mike Shanahan, then they should never have made the McNabb deal. They should have been willing to take their 2011 and 2012 1st rounders along with the 2010 second that went for McNabb and traded it to whomever for the quarterback they really wanted.

I realize Griffin is probably a better prospect then anyone they could have had in 2010, certainly better than Sam Bradford was in that draft, but they shouldn't have been worried about trading up for Bradford. They should have went out and got Rodgers or Flacco or Ryan or Roethlisberger (since he was on the trade block at the time) or Eli or Schaub or Palmer and frankly just admitted that they were incapable of winning without such a player.

There was no reason to waste two years waiting for the perfect prospect if you were just going to pay whatever it took to get him and ignore all historical context for the market anyway. Given what we know now, that was a brutal waste of two years.

Better late than never, I suppose, and Griffin is about as good as pro prospects get at this position. But it's hard to see this as anything but a huge admission of poor planning by the Shanahans who feel it's totally cool to spend draft picks which they are contractually obligated to use to build this team, though they were/are unlikely to actually be around when the picks will actually be made.

Or you could say they were smart enough to wait it out and go all in on someone they really believed in. If they just wanted any young QB they would surely have had one by now. Lots of different ways to look at things...

[MTK]

Originally Posted by celts32

Or you could say they were smart enough to wait it out and go all in on someone they really believed in. If they just wanted any young QB they would surely have had one by now. Lots of different ways to look at things...

Especially in hindsight.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Here's what I'll say: if a quarterback of Robert Griffin's stature was this important to the success of the Washington Redskins under Mike Shanahan, then they should never have made the McNabb deal. They should have been willing to take their 2011 and 2012 1st rounders along with the 2010 second that went for McNabb and traded it to whomever for the quarterback they really wanted.

I realize Griffin is probably a better prospect then anyone they could have had in 2010, certainly better than Sam Bradford was in that draft, but they shouldn't have been worried about trading up for Bradford. They should have went out and got Rodgers or Flacco or Ryan or Roethlisberger (since he was on the trade block at the time) or Eli or Schaub or Palmer and frankly just admitted that they were incapable of winning without such a player.

There was no reason to waste two years waiting for the perfect prospect if you were just going to pay whatever it took to get him and ignore all historical context for the market anyway. Given what we know now, that was a brutal waste of two years.

Better late than never, I suppose, and Griffin is about as good as pro prospects get at this position. But it's hard to see this as anything but a huge admission of poor planning by the Shanahans who feel it's totally cool to spend draft picks which they are contractually obligated to use to build this team, though they were/are unlikely to actually be around when the picks will actually be made.

I've said it numerous times the last two years, Mike's performance as a legacy, 2nd time around coach, has been remarkably poor. He absolutely did not have a plan, but more importantly IMO his game-day performance has been mostly abysmal in terms of tempo, clock-management, play-calling and overall preparation. In short, Mike and Kyle have to outperform their last two seasons by a significant margin to make this trade worthwhile.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Given what we know now, that was a brutal waste of two years.

Better late than never, I suppose, and Griffin is about as good as pro prospects get at this position. But it's hard to see this as anything but a huge admission of poor planning by the Shanahans who feel it's totally cool to spend draft picks which they are contractually obligated to use to build this team, though they were/are unlikely to actually be around when the picks will actually be made.

I agree that this move was an admission of fault, but its also very shrewd from a darwinian standpoint.

Completely independent of the on the field play, landing Griffin is one of the few ways this staff increases the chances that they'll be around in 2-3 years.
Drafting a potential 'franchise' QB that the fanbase and city can get behind buys the staff some leeway they may have lost with their previous mistakes.

It affords them the kind of leeway that can look past whatever struggles may/may not occur this season and chalk them up to growing pains of grooming a 'franchise' QB.

I agree that this move was costly though.
It reeks of self inflicted desperation and it highlights the schizophrenic pitfals that occur when your HC is really your GM.
At first blush this draft seems like a complete departure from last year.
But in context of their tenure here its actually in keeping with their m/o and displays their willingness to give up high draft picks.


And at the end of the day although I wish the cost was less, I love Griffin.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I agree that this move was an admission of fault, but its also very shrewd from a darwinian standpoint.

Completely independent of the on the field play, landing Griffin is one of the few ways this staff increases the chances that they'll be around in 2-3 years.
Drafting a potential 'franchise' QB that the fanbase and city can get behind buys the staff some leeway they may have lost with their previous mistakes.

It affords them the kind of leeway that can look past whatever struggles may/may not occur this season and chalk them up to growing pains of grooming a 'franchise' QB.

I agree that this move was costly though.
It reeks of self inflicted desperation and it highlights the schizophrenic pitfals that occur when your HC is really your GM.
At first blush this draft seems like a complete departure from last year.
But in context of their tenure here its actually in keeping with their m/o and displays their willingness to give up high draft picks.


And at the end of the day although I wish the cost was less, I love Griffin.

I agree with everything you wrote here, including the bottom line.

This is precisely why we all needed to step back and take a wait and see approach to determine the context of the 2011 draft. Before you can claim that they've committed to a new way of doing things, it makes sense to wait around to see if, you know, they are actually committed to a new way of doing things.

Ultimately, the Shanahans fell lock-step in line with the Vinny Cerrato line of thinking of: I'm going to get fired unless I get a new quarterback (new, as opposed to better). Only difference was that Vinny poked around some really lackluster prospects and didn't do anything, and Shanahan waited as long as he could then overbet the market by about 30%.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I agree with everything you wrote here, including the bottom line.

This is precisely why we all needed to step back and take a wait and see approach to determine the context of the 2011 draft. Before you can claim that they've committed to a new way of doing things, it makes sense to wait around to see if, you know, they are actually committed to a new way of doing things.

Ultimately, the Shanahans fell lock-step in line with the Vinny Cerrato line of thinking of: I'm going to get fired unless I get a new quarterback (new, as opposed to better). Only difference was that Vinny poked around some really lackluster prospects and didn't do anything, and Shanahan waited as long as he could then overbet the market by about 30%.

I strongly disagree with your assumption that Vinny Cerrato and Mike Shanahan had similar self-serving motivations to make acquisitions.

First of all, you have no idea of what may have motivated either one of these men to do a deal.

Secondly, the very thought that MS just wanted a new QB and not necessarily a better QB in order to save his own job is preposterous. A QB that is new and not necessarily better won't save his job.

The evidence that this was a football decision is that RGIII, who is a highly regarded prospect, has the ability to throw on the run and possesses extraordinary deep passing accuracy, which makes him a near perfect fit for the offense that MS wants to run.

You could have taken Shanahan's decision not to draft a QB last year at face value based on what he said about it, i.e, he didn't like any of them enough to draft one of them. Instead, you have decided to view the price Shanahan paid for RGIII as evidence that Shanahan stupidly painted himself into a corner by not drafting a QB last year, just as Vinny might have done. Is that right?

Perhaps Shanahan was just waiting for the right QB to become available and now he has acquired the draft position to get that QB. We need one, don't we?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I strongly disagree with your assumption that Vinny Cerrato and Mike Shanahan had similar self-serving motivations to make acquisitions.

First of all, you have no idea of what may have motivated either one of these men to do a deal.

Secondly, the very thought that MS just wanted a new QB and not necessarily a better QB in order to save his own job is preposterous. A QB that is new and not necessarily better won't save his job.

The evidence that this was a football decision is that RGIII, who is a highly regarded prospect, has the ability to throw on the run and possesses extraordinary deep passing accuracy, which makes him a near perfect fit for the offense that MS wants to run.

Perhaps Shanahan was just waiting for the right QB to become available and now he has acquired the draft position to get that QB. We need one, don't we?

Your point would be more valid if instead of giving as much as we did, if we had given a fair trade for the no. 2 pick. At such a level of compensation, I think you could defend the angle that the Redskins were just waiting for the right time to strike and found the right time after three years.

The compensation in the deal clearly suggests that this wasn't the right time so much as it was the only time.

You could have taken Shanahan's decision not to draft a QB last year at face value based on what he said about it, i.e, he didn't like any of them enough to draft one of them. Instead, you have decided to view the price Shanahan paid for RGIII as evidence that Shanahan stupidly painted himself into a corner by not drafting a QB last year, just as Vinny might have done. Is that right?

If it wasn't clear already, what Mike Shanahan thinks of quarterback prospects doesn't and shouldn't matter to us because it doesn't change the reality of the situation in terms of what was available and what we actually had. And if you took him at face value, then you would have to conclude that he thought Grossman and Beck were better than everyone in the draft last year.

He did paint himself into a tight corner, but I don't think the price for RG3 is evidence of that. I think the price of RG3 is more indicative of how much the heat had been turned up on him since last offseason when approaching the offense leisurely and focusing on the defensive front was a more acceptable way to approach things.

Shanahan has given himself a fighting chance to save his job. It's still an uphill battle, and Shanahan (not Griffin) will take the fall if the Redskins don't succeed in 2012, but he certainly has given himself more control over the team's success or failure this season with this move.

[WilbursHomie]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Here are the Redskins 2012 picks:

1st
3rd
4th
4th (JC trade)
5th
6th (McNabb trade)
7th

That is still a lot of picks.

Sent from my Samsung Epic 4G.

This post may have brought me down off the ledge an saved my life. Thanks.