2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

[firstdown]

[quote=Giantone;930334]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Whoever does a better job of getting people back to work and putting businesses in a postion where they feel good about hiring again is going to help the middle class more then anything. People focus to much on the class warfare.

QUOTE]

Class warfare is exactly what this is,like it or not there is a direct correlation between the demise of the middle class and the demise of Unions around the country.people talk about getting others more educated to get better (other) jobs when their job is sent over seas,yet those jobs are also going over seas.People can not live on 7.50 or even 10.50 a week.
I know people hate Unions,well I've said this before..you want firemen and policemen to walk into buildings and take a bullit fot you ...save your life but when it comes to them being able to support a family screw them,what do think would have happen to the firemen ,EMPs and Police after 9/11 if not for their Unions,yes there have been bad Union as there have been bad owners but the temperment for what is going on right now in this country proves we need Unions.(sorry for the rant)

So how is having more unions and driving up labor cost going to stop jobs from going over seas?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Honestly I don't see how they're going to do it. They're attacking the Obama administration with kid gloves, they don't have a clear plan outlined instead running on the fact that they aren't Obama, and they have a notorious flip flopper as their nominee. In other words it's scary how much Romney reminds me of John Kerry.

Plus they're getting killed in the polls and falling behind in key battleground states. We're also seeing seniors and latinos leaning towards Obama (ie Florida).

Right now Obama is the safe bet to win the election. I mean for goodness sake he's 9 points ahead in a Fox News poll.

Agreed. Neither one could/can rally their own base let alone win over enough independents.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

I was not aware that our government is supposed to ration its money out to social classes. Silly me.

Get your head out of your asses. Seriously. If you can't see what giving ALL the wealth to just a few select individuals is doing to the economy, then I really cant' help you. Nobody said that the wealth needs to be redistributed equally, but the gap in income between the wealthy and the poor is in large a reason why the economy sucks the way it does. Take away income from the middle/poor class, then you take away purchasing power and DEMAND out of the economy. It's basic economics.

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

another typical post boosting your credibility.....

Have either of you even read Paul Ryan's budget proposal? It's evident you haven't. Here, allow me to give you some insight.

Cutting taxes for the rich.
Mitt Romney Would Pay 0.82 Percent in Taxes Under Paul Ryan's Plan - Matthew O'Brien - The Atlantic

More money for big oil.
Ryan Budget Pads Big Oil’s Pockets with Senseless Subsidies


GOP even LOL'd at that shit.
Dems call GOP’s bluff, force House Republicans to vote down their own budget | The Raw Story


Wonkbook: Everything you need to know about Paul Ryan



Surely, his skipping Florida has nothing to do with how he wants to **** over the Senior citizens.
Ryan Skips Florida, Will Focus On Great Lakes States

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Its going to be so great when they take the office back in a few months. I see you just can't wait.

LOL. Romney just gave Obama all the ammo he needs...lol


Romney did Obama a huge favor - CNN.com



Ryan more right wing than Dick Cheney?


A Risky Rationale Behind Romney's Choice of Ryan - NYTimes.com




Loop all Romney/Ryan ads to target Budget Plan and Ayn Rand. Rinse/Repeat.

Paul Ryan loved Ayn Rand, before he said he didn't - latimes.com

[NC_Skins]

This basically sums it up for the GOP's election candidates this year.





I bet if McCain had ran with a decent VP this year, he'd smoked Obama.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Get your head out of your asses. Seriously. If you can't see what giving ALL the wealth to just a few select individuals is doing to the economy, then I really cant' help you. Nobody said that the wealth needs to be redistributed equally, but the gap in income between the wealthy and the poor is in large a reason why the economy sucks the way it does. Take away income from the middle/poor class, then you take away purchasing power and DEMAND out of the economy. It's basic economics.

All due respect the wealth of top 1 percent is overblown. This video can explain it better then I can.

Full disclosure I grew up in a family that got to the top 1 percent for a time during the 90s in part due to the stock market boom. My father grew up in a family of four kids where the father was a humble Bureaucrat. Two of the kids in my Dads family went on to be VP's of major corporations, another became a partner at a major major firm and is literally a millionaire a couple times over. The fourth child went on to be an amazing parent.

The ability to move up through income brackets is what makes this country great and as I progress further into my career I want that chance to be made available to me. I personally think the Obama move towards socialism is overblown and fear mongering among die hard neo-cons but at the same time I want a party in the White House that makes it easier for businesses to do business.

From what I've seen in this election the Republicans are that party as the Dems seem more interested in their vendetta with Wall Street then they are getting the economy to work again.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

All due respect the wealth of top 1 percent is overblown. This video can explain it better then I can.

Full disclosure I grew up in a family that got to the top 1 percent for a time during the 90s in part due to the stock market boom. My father grew up in a family of four kids where the father was a humble Bureaucrat. Two of the kids in my Dads family went on to be VP's of major corporations, another became a partner at a major major firm and is literally a millionaire a couple times over. The fourth child went on to be an amazing parent.

The ability to move up through income brackets is what makes this country great and as I progress further into my career I want that chance to be made available to me. I personally think the Obama move towards socialism is overblown and fear mongering among die hard neo-cons but at the same time I want a party in the White House that makes it easier for businesses to do business.

From what I've seen in this election the Republicans are that party as the Dems seem more interested in their vendetta with Wall Street then they are getting the economy to work again.

To me thats what makes America, America. Its the ability that no matter who you are, where you come from, or who you know you have a chance at being the next Mark Zuckerberg, Sergey Brin, Oprah Winfrey, Steve Jobs, Dan Snyder or Shahid Khan. While there may be plenty of families in the US that are old money, to me at least, it seems there is just as much new money and that’s what makes it great.

The income mobility (both up and down) in America far exceeds almost all, if not all, other places in the world. Everyone here has a chance at being part of the 1%. And once there, youre not given permanent access to that elite club as many drop back down the charts. I love the idea of living in a place thats based on merit and not entitlement. And i could care less how rich someone thats not me is, as long as I have a chance at being financially equal or superior to them through hard work, perseverance or luck, and not through entitlement, royalty or birth right.

It seems that more and more people arnt happy with what they have, not because of what they have or dont have, but because of what others do have. People need to stop. You either work and take risks to have more or youre happy being complacent, but to attack others because they have more is just plain old fashioned *Greenville North Caroline ignorant.

NCSkins: Would you rather live in a society where income disparity was minimal and everyone enjoyed a similar quality of life. Or would you rather live in a place where there was large income disparity, but the overall quality of life was better for everyone?

That’s what I think it all comes down to. It’s a psychology issue. Is quality of life based off of your own life or is it based off of your life only in comparison to anothers.

*Just playing about that Greenville stuff.....

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

LOL. Romney just gave Obama all the ammo he needs...lol


Romney did Obama a huge favor - CNN.com



Ryan more right wing than Dick Cheney?


A Risky Rationale Behind Romney's Choice of Ryan - NYTimes.com




Loop all Romney/Ryan ads to target Budget Plan and Ayn Rand. Rinse/Repeat.

Paul Ryan loved Ayn Rand, before he said he didn't - latimes.com

I think its great we have a conservative in the race now.

[Dirtbag59]

See mlmPert gets me. The truth is people move in and out of the top 1 percent all the time. It's not like there's a huge group of people that have a permanent spot among the financial elite. And the biggest surprise is in this top 1 percent you have teachers, secretaries, truck drivers, child care workers, nurses. It's not just corporate fat cats that think of ways to fleece people out of their hard earned money, though there is a healthy amount of lawyers .

The Top 1 Percent: What Jobs Do They Have? - NYTimes.com

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

That’s what I think it all comes down to. It’s a psychology issue. Is quality of life based off of your own life or is it based off of your life only in comparison to anothers.

*Just playing about that Greenville stuff.....

very good posts to you and Dirtbag.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

All due respect the wealth of top 1 percent is overblown. This video can explain it better then I can.
Are the Poor Getting Poorer? - YouTube

The problem with this video is that they don't take into account the number of jobs a particular home is working. Many poor people could in fact be working multiple jobs. It also doesn't take into account the costs of goods and inflation over time. A gallon of gas or a loaf of bread isn't what it cost 15 years ago. The wealth of the top 1 percent is NOT overblown, if anything, it understated. All this video says is that the poor people have gotten richer over time. Sure, their measly income has increase, but not at the rate of which the rich have and not at the rate to match cost of living.

It's the Inequality, Stupid | Mother Jones

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Full disclosure I grew up in a family that got to the top 1 percent for a time during the 90s in part due to the stock market boom. My father grew up in a family of four kids where the father was a humble Bureaucrat. Two of the kids in my Dads family went on to be VP's of major corporations, another became a partner at a major major firm and is literally a millionaire a couple times over. The fourth child went on to be an amazing parent.

The ability to move up through income brackets is what makes this country great and as I progress further into my career I want that chance to be made available to me. I personally think the Obama move towards socialism is overblown and fear mongering among die hard neo-cons but at the same time I want a party in the White House that makes it easier for businesses to do business.

That's nice and dandy, but that fairy tale doesn't exist for everybody. Hey guys, if Usain Bolt can win a gold medal so can you with hard work!! That's akin to your logic of people being able to progress through with hard work. It's a myth. Sure, it does happen to people, but on the overall whole, it's not really feasible. How many CEO jobs are there in the US? What if everybody worked just as hard as each other, would that mean they all could get CEO jobs? Nope. A lot of this has to do with luck, social connections, education, and work experience. I've worked in the private sector and currently work in the government side of things. You'll be surprised to know how often the guy who doesn't give it all or who's a nitwit gets promoted, while the guy who busts his ass doesn't because who's going to do the work if he gets promoted?...lol The below is why I love George Carlin so much. The man told the truth as it is, and knew even back then how things were. I think he sums up the "American Dream" quite well.



For few, they do indeed live the American Dream of making it to the top and prospering, but it's largely a myth for the rest of the population. This doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to be the best YOU because of this though. Being self fulfilled with one's abilities/talent is a important part of many people's life, but that doesn't always involve reaching the top.

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

From what I've seen in this election the Republicans are that party as the Dems seem more interested in their vendetta with Wall Street then they are getting the economy to work again.

Then you haven't been paying attention one bit.
Senate Republicans Block Another Jobs Bill, Face Backlash From American Public

Why Congress Won't Pass A Jobs Bill: 'Obama Is On The Ropes; Why Do We Appear Ready To Hand Him A Win?' | ThinkProgress

Puhhhlease...lol

/facepalm

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Honestly I don't see how they're going to do it. They're attacking the Obama administration with kid gloves, they don't have a clear plan outlined instead running on the fact that they aren't Obama, and they have a notorious flip flopper as their nominee. In other words it's scary how much Romney reminds me of John Kerry.

Plus they're getting killed in the polls and falling behind in key battleground states. We're also seeing seniors and latinos leaning towards Obama (ie Florida).

Right now Obama is the safe bet to win the election. I mean for goodness sake he's 9 points ahead in a Fox News poll.

Not so fast my friend: From Rasmussen. "The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows Mitt Romney attracting support from 47% of voters nationwide, while President Obama earns the vote from 44%. Four percent (4%) prefer some other candidate, and four percent (4%) are undecided."

Colorado '12 Presidential General Election Poll - Wednesday, August 8, 2012 - 2012 Election - POLITICO.com

Election 2012 Polling and News, Republican Presidential Candidates, Obama, Interactive Polling Data

More 2008 Obama Voters Than McCain Voters Switching Sides

Democratic Voting Enthusiasm Down Sharply From 2004, 2008

and now that saden's on the hook for more coin.....here's why Romney wins big in Nov. 2012: Root: Why Obama Will Lose in a Landslide | TheBlaze.com

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I think its great we have a conservative in the race now.

There's nothing conservative about Paul Ryan. Nothing. He rubber stamped every single Bush policy bloating the size government, including TARP, which most of you so called conservatives hate.

Paul Ryan has passed a grand total of two bills in 13 years of being in Congress. One was naming a post office. They got nothing.

[NC_Skins]

Paul Ryan's voting record:


Paul Ryan on the Issues




Decent article on Paul Ryan's voting career
Rep. Paul Ryan's voting record reflects a GOP foot soldier - latimes.com

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Get your head out of your asses. Seriously. If you can't see what giving ALL the wealth to just a few select individuals is doing to the economy, then I really cant' help you. Nobody said that the wealth needs to be redistributed equally, but the gap in income between the wealthy and the poor is in large a reason why the economy sucks the way it does. Take away income from the middle/poor class, then you take away purchasing power and DEMAND out of the economy. It's basic economics.

as FD mentioned, last I checked it wasn't the gov'ts job to "give" wealth to anyone. In your post you mention "redistributing" wealth.....shows clearly what side of the spectrum you fall under.....I'd say far left of 12th and saden. Nothing in the Romney/Paul plan takes from the middle class and gives to the "rich", another typical lib talking point.

Have either of you even read Paul Ryan's budget proposal? It's evident you haven't. Here, allow me to give you some insight.

This is your insight, outright lies and distortions of Ryan's plan by; the Center for American Progress, Ezra Klein and the Atlantic (plus an article from 2011), all left-wing hacks. LOL, again par for the course with you. How about I give you some insight so you can get your head out of your ass:

In the Ryan-Wyden (Dem, Oregon) plan:
1. No one over the age of 55 would be affected in any way.
2. Traditional Medicare fee-for-service would remain available for all. “Premium support”—that is, government funding of private insurance plans chosen by individuals—is an option for those who choose it. No senior would be forced out of the traditional Medicare program against his will.
3. Overall funding for Medicare under the Ryan-Wyden plan is scheduled to grow at the same rate as under President Obama’s proposals.

This plan is the market giving seniors cheaper, higher quality choices they can take if they wish, with the traditional program remaining an option.

Also, keep in mind that it was Obama and the dems who are gutting Medicare to the tune of $ 700B and will institute health care rationing for seniors under Obamacare.

Another important piece of information which the media arms of the DNC (CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN) declined to mention.....Paul Ryan's mother is a senior in Florida.....on Medicare. I wonder my the "unbiased" CBS would edit that portion of an interview with Ryan???? hmmmm?
CBS Doesn’t Want You to Know Ryan's Mother Is On Medicare - CBS News - Fox Nation