Arizona's New Immigration Law

[Rainy Parade]

Originally Posted by firstdown

If I had a family memeber who came to this country and was dirt poor trying to get by I'd FEEL THE NEED AND THE WANT to help them.

you spelled "deport" wrong.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Rainy Parade

dont fall into this coke vs. pepsi trap, the illusion of choice.

but what about New Coke

people seem to see President Obama as some radical leftist liberal, while i see him as just another "pragmatic" centrist Clinton Democrat

You must be a little to the left of Mao and Hugo....

Just poking fun

[Rainy Parade]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

but what about New Coke

You must be a little to the left of Mao and Hugo....

Just poking fun

haha! true.
but the people held up as hardcore liberal leftists in this country (Obama, Kerry, Ted Kennedy, the Clintons, etc) are all "pragmatic centrists" IMO.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Rainy Parade

you spelled "deport" wrong.

Funny. Unlike Obama I could file to sponsor the family member which is saying I will watch over them and provide financial assistance. This way the family member would not be drain on the system and could work toward citizeship. I believe in her case she cam here ligally but over stayed her visa which makes it a little easier. Its also how she got goverment assistance and why just handing out green cards is not a great idea.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

but what about New Coke

You must be a little to the left of Mao and Hugo....

Just poking fun

I saw the so-called big NRa crowd here in Charlotte. They are old looks like an AARP convention.

[mlmpetert]

This guy is pretty sweet:

We Are Better Than That! [VIDEO]

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Rainy Parade

haha! true.
but the people held up as hardcore liberal leftists in this country (Obama, Kerry, Ted Kennedy, the Clintons, etc) are all "pragmatic centrists" IMO.

So, who do you consider a "hardcore liberal leftist"? Is anyone who fails to call for the dicatatorship of the proletariat a "pragmatic centerist"?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I don't think many people would argue the Constitution didn't derive from the Magna Carta, and the effects of English history.

Did Africans from the ivory coast/liberia farm rice and cotton? I ask because I did not know that. Looking online, cotton and rice increased the slave trade due to the need for cheap labor not instructions on farming cotton per se.

Interesting reads on this topic include:

Slavery in America
and

Plantation System of the South: Information from Answers.com
All that said, your point of incorporating a lot of cultures (melting pot) is true but we didn't succeed as a country by setting up islands of nationalities (didn't work well in Czechoslovakia either), but by the individual nationalities submitting to an identity as a United States citizen.

I for one, am stunned and impressed that the internet (and those who know how to use it) still find joethiesmanfan's (who i just realized, doesn't even have Thiesmann spelled correctly) statements falsifiable.

It's almost like a desperate attempt for the unproveable, only to later be disproven.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I for one, am stunned and impressed that the internet (and those who know how to use it) still find joethiesmanfan's (who i just realized, doesn't even have Thiesmann spelled correctly) statements falsifiable.

It's almost like a desperate attempt for the unproveable, only to later be disproven.

GTRIPP that's the point. An identity as a US citizen does not have to mean English speaking caucasians. Te term white didn't always apply to all caucasians. There was a time when Irish were not considered white in America. This is Amercia, we incorporated alot of Mexico into our territory. It's silly to feel threatened by what makes America different than Europe. It's also the reason America is much more powerful and richer than Europe.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I for one, am stunned and impressed that the internet (and those who know how to use it) still find joethiesmanfan's (who i just realized, doesn't even have Thiesmann spelled correctly) statements falsifiable.

It's almost like a desperate attempt for the unproveable, only to later be disproven.

So where were the English cotton and rice plantations? Actually, it is Senegal where the links between South Carolina and Africa exist to this day. Why not use endentured servants from England, maybe because they didn't know how to "make that money". I have got to give credit to Europe from going from the poorest to the richest continent. Time is fluent, and we are witnessing a European downgrade at the hands of the Arabs and Chinese as we speak. But America is not Europe we don't have Europe's problems.

[Rainy Parade]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

So, who do you consider a "hardcore liberal leftist"? Is anyone who fails to call for the dicatatorship of the proletariat a "pragmatic centerist"?

no, just people like Kucinich or Feingold.... or even Glenn Greenwald who writes for salon. he's dubbed "a liberal" or "someone on the left," but he has plenty of valid criticism for obama and beltway democrats.

skilled politicians like Clinton and Obama know how to appeal to liberals while governing closer to the center.

[htownskinfan]

From a California school teacher

"As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:

I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic and income levels

Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens , Huntington Park , etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.

Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten.

I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones.
The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids.

I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America.

I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students, here in the country less then 3 months, who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them "Putas"(whores) and throwing things, that the teachers were in tears.

Free medical, free education, free food, free day care etc., etc, etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?

To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.

Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.

Americans, We need to wake up.

It does, however, have everything to do with culture: It involves an American third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about "political correctness" that we don't have the will to do anything about it.


CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?

Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.

Consumers don't want expensive produce.

Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.

But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth, a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."

Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.

He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.

He qualifies for food stamps.

He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.

His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.

He requires bilingual teachers and books.

He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.

If they are, or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI. If qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicaid. All of this is at (our) taxpayer's expense.

He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.

Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.

He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.

Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6..00/hour left after paying their bills and his.

Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT!
THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE CONGRESSIONAL MEMBERS OF EITHER PARTY. 'AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM .

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

From a California school teacher

"As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:

I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic and income levels

Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens , Huntington Park , etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.

Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten.

I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones.
The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids.

I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America.

I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students, here in the country less then 3 months, who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them "Putas"(whores) and throwing things, that the teachers were in tears.

Free medical, free education, free food, free day care etc., etc, etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?

To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.

Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.

Americans, We need to wake up.

It does, however, have everything to do with culture: It involves an American third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about "political correctness" that we don't have the will to do anything about it.


CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?

Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.

Consumers don't want expensive produce.

Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.

But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth, a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."

Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.

He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.

He qualifies for food stamps.

He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.

His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.

He requires bilingual teachers and books.

He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.

If they are, or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI. If qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicaid. All of this is at (our) taxpayer's expense.

He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.

Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.

He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.

Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6..00/hour left after paying their bills and his.

Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT!
THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE CONGRESSIONAL MEMBERS OF EITHER PARTY. 'AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM .

Sound like any other business corporation to me. Spend the budget or lose the budget.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Sound like any other business corporation to me. Spend the budget or lose the budget.

EXCEPT........guess what?? OUR tax dollars paid for it

[CRedskinsRule]

and in most businesses, if the budget doesn't balance they have to cut back, or find a way to balance it.