Report: Shanahan to DC done deal

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

If it was such a 'bullshit token rule' (which I find highly offensive BTW) then I'm sure the Steelers appreciate that 'bullshit token rule' because otherwise they wouldn't have interviewed Mike Tomlin. The Bears may not have interviewed Lovie Smith. Leslie Frazier may not be a hot candidate for jobs this year.

For those that think it's a 'bullshit token rule' tell that to Sherm Lewis, Marvin Lewis, Tony Dungy and plenty of the other coaches who weren't given a sniff for an interview for YEARS because the good old boy network was busy recycling the same names and faces over and over again.

It's really easy to sit on the perch of power and mock the lack of opportunity and delude yourself into believing a level playing field existed before the Rooney rule.

Why do you seem to take everthing someone says about the BS rule as a negative comment toward african americans? As if we don't want blacks to get a chance. My comment about it being a BS rule is cause if an owner wants to interview the african american water boy for a HCing position then he can and has fulfilled the Rooney Rule. In other words it's not fair to qualified black candidates to which I call it a BS rule.

Some of the people on here feel Gray was qualified. He got interviewed. Be satisfied. I don't know if he is or not... I would have prefered some one else get interviewed. Who? I don't kinow but maybe a black OC. Our problems are not defense right now. I just hope Gray got a fair shake. I hope the team told Zorn and he gave Gray his blessing otherwise Gray would feel like he's undermining his HC and in essence not have interviewed seriously for the job.

This is why I feel it's a BS rule. Not cause I don't think there should be black HC's or black coach's interviewed for those positions.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Does my best friend hit it, cause that's just wrong.

of course your best friend hits it, were in hypothetical land where everyone hits it.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by mlmdub130

i'm just saying the team and front office in general over the past decade have been a joke and i would say we are worse off than any of the teams you listed. and with the as of late it just makes me sit back and get very apathetic and realize how much of a joke we are to the rest of the league

We're no more of a joke than the Chiefs, Raiders, Lions, Browns, Bills, Bucs or Rams.

Chiefs-new coach, new (expensive) QB, same crappy results
Raiders-A job that still nobody wants
Lions-years of suckitude and it keeps on coming
Browns-Finally a ray of light after a long, long, long time
Bills-Can't give away their coaching job, even with a ton of $ tied to it
Bucs-Maybe churning their coach and roster again after 1 year
Rams-See Lions but worse

Our franchise and HC job are very attractive and we've got some good pieces. We're closer to turning the corner to being good than we are to repeating another 4-12/5-11 type season.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Why do you seem to take everthing someone says about the BS rule as a negative comment toward african americans? As if we don't want blacks to get a chance. My comment about it being a BS rule is cause if an owner wants to interview the african american water boy for a HCing position then he can and has fulfilled the Rooney Rule. In other words it's not fair to qualified black candidates to which I call it a BS rule.

Some of the people on here feel Gray was qualified. He got interviewed. Be satisfied. I don't know if he is or not... I would have prefered some one else get interviewed. Who? I don't kinow but maybe a black OC. Our problems are not defense right now. I just hope Gray got a fair shake. I hope the team told Zorn and he gave Gray his blessing otherwise Gray would feel like he's undermining his HC and in essence not have interviewed seriously for the job.

This is why I feel it's a BS rule. Not cause I don't think there should be black HC's or black coach's interviewed for those positions.

nice post.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

How would it have been clearly satisfied?

Letter: we hire a minority in this scenario
Spirit: we genuinely interview a minority in this scenario (or we couldn't hire him)

It seems to me that the Rooney Rule is about advancing minorities, regardless of what time of year the advancement happens.

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

We're no more of a joke than the Chiefs, Raiders, Lions, Browns, Bills, Bucs or Rams.

Chiefs-new coach, new (expensive) QB, same crappy results
Raiders-A job that still nobody wants
Lions-years of suckitude and it keeps on coming
Browns-Finally a ray of light after a long, long, long time
Bills-Can't give away their coaching job, even with a ton of $ tied to it
Bucs-Maybe churning their coach and roster again after 1 year
Rams-See Lions but worse

Our franchise and HC job are very attractive and we've got some good pieces. We're closer to turning the corner to being good than we are to repeating another 4-12/5-11 type season.

you just lumped us, the washington redskins, in with the cheifs lions bills rams, and raiders, to me that is a fucking joke

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Letter: we hire a minority in this scenario
Spirit: we genuinely interview a minority in this scenario (or we couldn't hire him)

It seems to me that the Rooney Rule is about advancing minorities, regardless of what time of year the advancement happens.

But the Rooney Rule isn't in place for the Tony Dungys and Marvin Lewises (not anymore), it's there now for guys like Leslie Frazier, Sherman Smith, etc.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Then have some balls like Ralph Wilson and fire the guy. Then have an interm HC. That way you can get the process started early. Embarassing someone, leaving some hung out to dry is very unprofessional IMO. And Gray is just Dan's token bitch. He's only screwing himself.

That's the way it happens sometimes. DS would then get chastised for firing someone mid season.

I would agree that some acts have been unprofessional this year but I'm not sure that interviewing candidates prior to firing a coach is one of them. It happens all of the time in the NFL. Hell, "feelers" are put out all of the time in the NCAA. We can agree it would have been better kept under wraps.

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by redsk1

That's the way it happens sometimes. DS would then get chastised for firing someone mid season.

I would agree that some acts have been unprofessional this year but I'm not sure that interviewing candidates prior to firing a coach is one of them. It happens all of the time in the NFL. Hell, "feelers" are put out all of the time in the NCAA. We can agree it would have been better kept under wraps.

not someone on your own team, doing multiple interveiws, interviewing people not on the team is one thing but interviewing someone who is underneath you is very unprofessional

just imagine the owner of your company coming in and telling you he wants to interview you for your bosses job because he is gonna fire your boss in two months, would you listen to one word your boss told you from there on out i sure as shit know i wouldn't

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Why do you seem to take everthing someone says about the BS rule as a negative comment toward african americans? As if we don't want blacks to get a chance. My comment about it being a BS rule is cause if an owner wants to interview the african american water boy for a HCing position then he can and has fulfilled the Rooney Rule. In other words it's not fair to qualified black candidates to which I call it a BS rule.

Some of the people on here feel Gray was qualified. He got interviewed. Be satisfied. I don't know if he is or not... I would have prefered some one else get interviewed. Who? I don't kinow but maybe a black OC. Our problems are not defense right now. I just hope Gray got a fair shake. I hope the team told Zorn and he gave Gray his blessing otherwise Gray would feel like he's undermining his HC and in essence not have interviewed seriously for the job.

This is why I feel it's a BS rule. Not cause I don't think there should be black HC's or black coach's interviewed for those positions.

I don't take that position (which he clarified) as a negative towards African Americans, I take offense to that attitude of 'tokenism' being the reason the rule is in place. The rule is intended to increase exposure to other candidates that owners may not have considered otherwise. I am sure Norm Chow and Ron Rivera wish the Rooney Rule was in place 10-12 years ago when they were coming up in the coaching ranks and neither of them is African American.

The Rooney Rule says nothing about HIRING (which is where the claim of 'tokenism' would be applicable) but simply interviewing. If there were 8 openings this offseason and 8 different minority candidates were interviewed and 8 white guys were hired, there would be no complaints from the Fritz Pollard Alliance because the Rooney Rule would have been followed and all teams would be in compliance with it.

The best application of the rule is in our case. We know that Shanny is going to be the coach, but we interviewed Jerry Gray. Now let's say the Texans make the decision to fire Kubiak. Snyder may call Bob McNair and say, 'hey we interviewed Jerry Gray for our HC position. He's got some great ideas on the 3-4 defense like you guys run, came in with a dynamite plan and presentation and I know you are looking for a defensive minded coach. He wasn't a fit for us because we wanted an offensive guy but maybe you should give him a call.' That is how the Rooney Rule is supposed to work, it has nothing to do with tokenism, hiring percentages or quotas.

My issues have nothing to do with skin color, only speaking half cocked on things without knowing the facts.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

But the Rooney Rule isn't in place for the Tony Dungys and Marvin Lewises (not anymore), it's there now for guys like Leslie Frazier, Sherman Smith, etc.

I understand your argument. Perhaps the Rooney Rule should be amended so that those who previously held high office don't count in its fulfillment. Of course, then it would be discriminative against folks like Dungy and Marvin Lewis - what irony!

But, as it stands, the Rooney Rule would be satisfied if we hired Dungy, regardless of when we hired him IMO.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I don't take that position (which he clarified) as a negative towards African Americans, I take offense to that attitude of 'tokenism' being the reason the rule is in place. The rule is intended to increase exposure to other candidates that owners may not have considered otherwise. I am sure Norm Chow and Ron Rivera wish the Rooney Rule was in place 10-12 years ago when they were coming up in the coaching ranks and neither of them is African American.

The Rooney Rule says nothing about HIRING (which is where the claim of 'tokenism' would be applicable) but simply interviewing. If there were 8 openings this offseason and 8 different minority candidates were interviewed and 8 white guys were hired, there would be no complaints from the Fritz Pollard Alliance because the Rooney Rule would have been followed and all teams would be in compliance with it.

The best application of the rule is in our case. We know that Shanny is going to be the coach, but we interviewed Jerry Gray. Now let's say the Texans make the decision to fire Kubiak. Snyder may call Bob McNair and say, 'hey we interviewed Jerry Gray for our HC position. He's got some great ideas on the 3-4 defense like you guys run, came in with a dynamite plan and presentation and I know you are looking for a defensive minded coach. He wasn't a fit for us because we wanted an offensive guy but maybe you should give him a call.' That is how the Rooney Rule is supposed to work, it has nothing to do with tokenism, hiring percentages or quotas.

My issues have nothing to do with skin color, only speaking half cocked on things without knowing the facts.

But Pain you say your issues have nothing to do with skin color, but at the end of the day, my friend, the Rooney Rule is all about skin color. That reality can't be escaped and can't be separate from this argument. And on the contrary, if someone had a hang-up with Rivera or Chow ten years ago because of skin color or ethnicity, it wouldn't amount to a hill of beans in the eyes of the interviewer if Rivera or Chow interviewed for that same job today.

I like and agree how you feel that the Rooney Rule is intended to increase exposure to candidates who wouldn't be otherwise considered for promotion. But getting hired is the prize, not simply getting interviewed. Your point is well taken though.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

But Pain you say your issues have nothing to do with skin color, but at the end of the day, my friend, the Rooney Rule is all about skin color. That reality can't be escaped and can't be separate from this argument. And on the contrary, if someone had a hang-up with Rivera or Chow ten years ago because of skin color or ethnicity, it wouldn't amount to a hill of beans in the eyes of the interviewer if Rivera or Chow interviewed for that same job today.

I like and agree how you feel that the Rooney Rule is intended to increase exposure to candidates who wouldn't be otherwise be considered for promotion. But getting hired is the prize, not simply getting interviewed. Your point is well taken though.

Maybe I should have clarified. I should have said my issues never have anything to do with 'African American'.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I don't take that position (which he clarified) as a negative towards African Americans, I take offense to that attitude of 'tokenism' being the reason the rule is in place. The rule is intended to increase exposure to other candidates that owners may not have considered otherwise. I am sure Norm Chow and Ron Rivera wish the Rooney Rule was in place 10-12 years ago when they were coming up in the coaching ranks and neither of them is African American.

The Rooney Rule says nothing about HIRING (which is where the claim of 'tokenism' would be applicable) but simply interviewing. If there were 8 openings this offseason and 8 different minority candidates were interviewed and 8 white guys were hired, there would be no complaints from the Fritz Pollard Alliance because the Rooney Rule would have been followed and all teams would be in compliance with it.

The best application of the rule is in our case. We know that Shanny is going to be the coach, but we interviewed Jerry Gray. Now let's say the Texans make the decision to fire Kubiak. Snyder may call Bob McNair and say, 'hey we interviewed Jerry Gray for our HC position. He's got some great ideas on the 3-4 defense like you guys run, came in with a dynamite plan and presentation and I know you are looking for a defensive minded coach. He wasn't a fit for us because we wanted an offensive guy but maybe you should give him a call.' That is how the Rooney Rule is supposed to work, it has nothing to do with tokenism, hiring percentages or quotas.

My issues have nothing to do with skin color, only speaking half cocked on things without knowing the facts.

I agree black candidates need exposure and thats what the Rooney Rule was meant for but my issues are about interviewing black coach's who don't have a chance in hell of getting the job but are interviewed simply to fulfill the rule vs. interviewing actual qualified black coach's. Yes Gray is qualified I guess. I don't know. I would like to think DS, maybe G.Williams, or someone associated with the team would make that call or when another team contacts the Skins someone would suggest Gray. I would like to think that's how most of the great black HC's got their start. I'd like to see more teams coaching up or giving black coach's better chances at OC so they in the long run get better chances of getting HCing jobs.

Just like when you apply for a job you don't apply for one job and hope you get it. You apply for many jobs in hopes you get one of them. Your chances are better. No different then teams hiring more black position coach's which brings about more candidates for HCing jobs vs. one or two candidates.

The sad thing is I think we all are thinking along the same lines but for whatever reason it seemed like you got offended with all of us for saying its a BS rule. As if we are racist and don't think blacks should be given a chance. When in reality we are saying teams are not even interviewing qualified candidates in some instances just to satisfy the Rooney Rule leaving actual qualified candidates out. Gray may be qualified but how can you say he was given a fair shake when he's still working under someone who's in a position he interviewing for?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I agree black candidates need exposure and thats what the Rooney Rule was meant for but my issues are about interviewing black coach's who don't have a chance in hell of getting the job but are interviewed simply to fulfill the rule vs. interviewing actual qualified black coach's. Yes Gray is qualified I guess. I don't know. I would like to think DS, maybe G.Williams, or someone associated with the team would make that call or when another team contacts the Skins someone would suggest Gray. I would like to think that's how most of the great black HC's got their start. I'd like to see more teams coaching up or giving black coach's better chances at OC so they in the long run get better chances of getting HCing jobs.

Just like when you apply for a job you don't apply for one job and hope you get it. You apply for many jobs in hopes you get one of them. Your chances are better. No different then teams hiring more black position coach's which brings about more candidates for HCing jobs vs. one or two candidates.

The sad thing is I think we all are thinking along the same lines but for whatever reason it seemed like you got offended with all of us for saying its a BS rule. As if we are racist and don't think blacks should be given a chance. When in reality we are saying teams are not even interviewing qualified candidates in some instances just to satisfy the Rooney Rule leaving actual qualified candidates out. Gray may be qualified but how can you say he was given a fair shake when he's still working under someone who's in a position he interviewing for?

2 points to what was bolded. I agree it was a bit of a 'sham' interview, as some Rooney interview are. Where the value is in a scenario like that is the ability to give a recommendation to another owner based on an interview you may not have otherwise done.

If I was authoring the rule I would have put in the language that you cannot interview someone who is working for or has worked for you in the past 3 years to satisfy the rule. You would have to interview someone unique to your organization in order to be in compliance.

What I find/found offensive is the notion that the rule is in place to fulfill quotas and tokens. Not only is it inaccurate, it's offensive because of the implication that those coaches would only be hired to satisfy a 'BS rule'.