Who do you want to start at QB?

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

You don't have to endure listening to anyone on this site. You can not read their posts or put them on your Ignore List.

Declaring Newton an NFL success at QB is a bit premature at best after 6 games, a 78.3 QB rating, two 3 INT games and a 1-5 record. May he reach the potential he has, maybe? Could he still win up a colossal bust, maybe?

Scouting Reports or summaries from some "idiots":

ProFootballWeekly.com - Cam Newton scouting report

From the PFW link: Can provide an initial spark, but will quickly be dissected and contained by NFL defensive coordinators, struggle to sustain success and will not prove worthy of an early investment. An overhyped, high-risk, high-reward selection with a glaring bust factor, Newton is sure to be drafted more highly than he should and could foreclose a risk-taking GM's job and taint a locker room.

Caution on Cam Newton From Mayock - NYTimes.com

Mayock had him rated as the third best QB.

ESPN's Mel Kiper compares Cam Newton to all-time bust Akili Smith

Kiper also said Newton had the "biggest upside and biggest risk".

Draft's biggest wild card: Is Cam Newton a boom or a bust? - USATODAY.com

"He has a first-round arm and first-round athleticism, but you just can't snap your fingers and say, 'He's NFL-ready,' " NFLDraftScout.com senior analyst Rob Rang said.
Added McShay: "People will ask about his one quote, that he wants to be an entertainer and icon. It raises questions about where his focus is. Do you love the game? Or do you love what the game brings you?
"It's hard to pass on Cam Newton's talent. But I think Blaine Gabbert's better."

If Beck is an unknown, why is Clausen not an unknown rather than a "3rd string" failure as you infer. Another team will give Clausen a look at some point and hopefully he'll make the most of that opportunity. Currently his record is 1-9 as a starter with a 58.3 QB rate. Not good by any standard, but he improved as the year went on despite playing 7 playoff teams in 10 starts.

Let's look at the others in that class: Tebow - jury's out, but serious limitiations as a passer. We'll find out about Tebow the rest of this year.

McCoy - 4-9 record as starter, 76.3 QB rate. Done some good things, might improve with better talent around him.

Bradford - 7-14 record as starter, 75.3 QB rate. Done some good things on a horrible team. I believe he'll be a solid NFL QB, but not an elite QB.

I haven't seen anyone on this site claim to be an "expert" on NFL QBs. This is a message board and folks come here to share their thoughts and opinions. Some folks agree, some don't, that's what makes it interesting. It's awful easy to bash someone's reasoned opinion on a QB/team/whatever after the fact as "idiotic" or a "Failure", hindsight is 20/20. If you didn't step up and put out a reasoned counter-opinion in my mind you don't have any grounds to criticize.

I wouldn't definitively call people out when the jury is still out on any QBs from the 2010 & 2011 draft classes.....but that's just my opinion, I'm no expert.

I never declared Cam Newton a success, nor was that the point of my post. He could still flake out or steal a lap top.
My point was not to put down Clausen to prop up Cam as some of you inferred. I am sorry if that is what you took from it.
My point was we do not know what we have in Beck or any other Qb (Newton, Clausen, etc.) that has never played or played very little in the NFL.
I was replying to those that implied Grossman = Beck, Beck = Grossman in ability. We still do not know what we have in Beck because he has yet to even start a regular season game for the Redskins. Much less has he started 5 or 10 games for us like Grossman has.
We will soon see if Shanahan will allow it.
I do not post on this sight much, especially on those threads that seek to demonize people and players. A bold opinion is one thing, but rushing to judgment on a player who has started 4 games in his career or has never played in the NFL and claiming to be something (great, bad, average) is premature. Tom Brady and Joe Montana were drafted and rated low. But they got their chance and made the best of it. I am NOT saying Beck will be the next Tom Brady. But lets see what we have.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Bucket

How do we know Beck wont be better, or even good? He hasn't even played a game and as far as rookies are concerned. If you treat Beck like a Rookie QB at the moment then his appearance the other day wasn't that bad.

You don't know what you will get out of Beck till he plays. Many QB's have sat on the Bench only to come in the game and prove they can play in the NFL.

but he's 30. a 30 year old rookie is in no way impressive and probably won't light it up here after being passed on by other QB needy teams.

maybe he will, maybe he's rich gannon II, but i won't be putting money on it.

[Defensewins]

This is not college football so that Beck started a 'bunch of games in college' does not mean a thing.
The point I was making on my initial post is some on this sight were so quick to say this off season that Cam Newton will not be a good NFL Qb even before he was drafted and took an NFL snap. Some people said Jimmy Clausen was a can't miss NFL Qb and would be the best QB of his draft class, before he ever took an NFL snap.
John Beck has started 4 NFL regular season games all for the Miami Dolphins adn people are claiming to know he is this or that. Jimmy Clausen has started 10 games and he is only in his second year. Age has nothing to do with experience.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

This is not college football.
The point I was making on my initial post is some on this sight were so quick to say Cam Newton will be a failure in the NFL even before he was drafted and took an NFL snap. Some people said Jimmy Clausen was a can't miss NFL Qb and would be the best QB of his draft class, before he ever took an NFL snap.
John Beck has started 4 NFL regular season games all for the Miami Dolphins adn people are claiming to know he is this or that. Jimmy Clausen has started 10 games and he is only in his second year. Age has nothing to do with experience.

What I'm hearing though (and you should correct me if I'm wrong) is that Beck hasn't played and people shouldn't write him off until he played. And then I'm also hearing you say that Jimmy Clausen sucks and that he deserves to sit behind Cam Newton because Newton was ultra promising and Clausen never was. You've written off other's opinions of Jimmy Clausen because he struggled in 10 games, and in the same post, you're defending Beck on the grounds of that we just really don't know anything anyway.

Look, I think there's a small chance that you're right on both accounts. There's a tiny chance that Beck is really, really good, and Clausen just sucks. And you can probably find an expert (try Mel Kiper) who believes exactly the opposite and you can laugh in his face, that non-believer. Cam's great! What is that fool thinking?!

What I'm missing is I don't understand the issue you're taking with people who predicted early failures for Cam Newton, and why that's proof positive of John Beck deserving a better opportunity than he's gotten. There are people who are biased against college spread quarterbacks and people who are biased against inexperienced college players and the Carolina Panthers proved to be neither when they took him first overall. But no one except a couple of Redskin coaches and various talking heads believe in John Beck. And that's not at all the same as Cam Newton and his eight figure signing bonus.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

What I'm hearing though (and you should correct me if I'm wrong) is that Beck hasn't played and people shouldn't write him off until he played. And then I'm also hearing you say that Jimmy Clausen sucks and that he deserves to sit behind Cam Newton because Newton was ultra promising and Clausen never was. You've written off other's opinions of Jimmy Clausen because he struggled in 10 games, and in the same post, you're defending Beck on the grounds of that we just really don't know anything anyway.

Look, I think there's a small chance that you're right on both accounts. There's a tiny chance that Beck is really, really good, and Clausen just sucks. And you can probably find an expert (try Mel Kiper) who believes exactly the opposite and you can laugh in his face, that non-believer. Cam's great! What is that fool thinking?!

What I'm missing is I don't understand the issue you're taking with people who predicted early failures for Cam Newton, and why that's proof positive of John Beck deserving a better opportunity than he's gotten. There are people who are biased against college spread quarterbacks and people who are biased against inexperienced college players and the Carolina Panthers proved to be neither when they took him first overall. But no one except a couple of Redskin coaches and various talking heads believe in John Beck. And that's not at all the same as Cam Newton and his eight figure signing bonus.

You are wrong, I am not saying that.
Clausen does not suck. He may end up being a great nfl Qb. We do not know yet. But people were claiming Clausen ready to play in the NFL before he was drafted. I do not agree with making those kind of statements.
All I am saying is you can not definitively judge a QB that has started 4 games or has stared zero games. .

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

You are wrong, I am not saying that. Clausen does not suck. He may end up being a great nfl Qb. All I am saying is you can not definitively judge a QB that has started 4 games.

Fair enough.

It is my opinion that if you start compiling all of the available evidence, you probably can judge John Beck pretty accurately. Four games? Probably not enough to say either way. Beck has been in the league five years though and has appeared in five games. Which means that some jerk of a coach (or coaches) is going out of his way to not play him. And if Shanahan names Rex the QB tomorrow, you can add him to those list of coaches who conspires secretly to not give John Beck a shot. My opinion (and its simply another opinion, like yours) is that, okay, Beck may or may not deserve to be named the QB this week, but people are expecting way too much from John Beck or the idea of John Beck.

All Beck has proven is that he deeply, truly loves the game of football. And it's hard to tell a guy like that "no, you can't play", though a bunch of NFL coaches have done exactly that. Nothing with Beck is definitive. With Grossman, sure, a lot has been shown definitively.

[SmootSmack]

We can't say for sure what Beck can/will do. But I wish we'd dispel this notion that he's Cam Newton entering this season. Beck isn't a rookie who's never taken an NFL snap. And the notion that he's Romo or Trent Green. He wasn't an undrafted free agent. He wasn't even someone who has been grooomed under one team under the time was right like Rodgers or even Kolb.

He's Brady Quinn. That's essentially what he is right now, Brady Quinn. A top 40 pick who has not yet found his place in the league, but it won't be with the team that drafted him. And yeah he played on a bad Dolphins team. So what. That's what happens to most good young quarterbacks on bad teams

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

We can't say for sure what Beck can/will do. But I wish we'd dispel this notion that he's Cam Newton entering this season. Beck isn't a rookie who's never taken an NFL snap. And the notion that he's Romo or Trent Green. He wasn't an undrafted free agent. He wasn't even someone who has been grooomed under one team under the time was right like Rodgers or even Kolb.

He's Brady Quinn. That's essentially what he is right now, Brady Quinn. A top 40 pick who has not yet found his place in the league, but it won't be with the team that drafted him. And yeah he played on a bad Dolphins team. So what. That's what happens to most good young quarterbacks on bad teams

That is all I am trying to say. People say we know what he have. We do not. He might surprise, he might fail. He might be very average. We will see. That is great.
y

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

He's Brady Quinn. That's essentially what he is right now, Brady Quinn. A top 40 pick who has not yet found his place in the league, but it won't be with the team that drafted him. And yeah he played on a bad Dolphins team. So what. That's what happens to most good young quarterbacks on bad teams

I see what you did there. Very smooth.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I see what you did there. Very smooth.

Um...I don't even think I see what I did there...guess you read between the lines?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Um...I don't even think I see what I did there...guess you read between the lines?

Yes. I agree with you.

[Bucket]

Where did Redskin players say that don't think Beck is very good? I've never seen that. Sometimes Gtripp, I think you make up stuff to make a point lol.

We don't know what we can get with Beck, but we know what we are getting from Grossman, and it's not very much. I firmly believe that Beck can do no worse then what Grossman has done for us this year. I do believe that he can add another element to our offense that desperately needs it right now.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Bucket

Where did Redskin players say that don't think Beck is very good? I've never seen that. Sometimes Gtripp, I think you make up stuff to make a point lol.

We don't know what we can get with Beck, but we know what we are getting from Grossman, and it's not very much. I firmly believe that Beck can do no worse then what Grossman has done for us this year. I do believe that he can add another element to our offense that desperately needs it right now.

Well if you are allowing me to speak for the Redskins players, then I really am just making stuff up. If you actually interpret their comments, then I'm just reading between the lines.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well if you are allowing me to speak for the Redskins players, then I really am just making stuff up. If you actually interpret their comments, then I'm just reading between the lines.

I must of missed these comments then. I've seen players say they follow whoever is behind center. Even Moss defended Grossman at first, but said he has faith in Beck or Grossman.

Maybe you're just a great interpreter :cool-smil


6TD/9Int and 11 total turnovers this year in 5 games. Worse rating in the NFL as a QB, and I believe he's in the bottom of the new QBR system as well... I don't think Shanny has all this faith he says he has in Grossman. I believe that Grossman is Kyle's guy and that's who he wants to play because he "won" the preseason competition.

I really do think Beck will play this year, but I have a feeling Grossman will be the starter on Sunday. A coach's meeting, and Kyle telling his dad that his guy had one bad game, etc etc...

I hope i'm wrong, and I could be because this is all opinionated guesses. For all I know, Shanny will announce Beck the starting QB because his mobility and quick release give us the best chance to win behind a injured Oline.

Who knows... All I know is on the first few snaps of the Eagles game. The roll out returned and was effective to an extent. That's the offense I wan't to see. I still watch Houston games because watching the way the offense is suppose to run is beautiful.

[Bucket]

You guys looks to much into age. This isn't Madden. You can't just have a roster full of 25 year old speedsters.

30 for a QB is still middle age and he just turned 30. He hasn't been beat up, and IF he does turn out to be a solid QB.. Then why couldn't he play here for 4-5 years while we groom a QB "Rogers Style"?