Should Mike Shanahan be fired?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Shanahan will never agree to that, nor will he agree to keeping his hands off the defense. This is the crux of the problem with him, it's all or nothing.

What head coach would agree to having no influence over the defense or personnel decisions?

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

What head coach would agree to having no influence over the defense or personnel decisions?

One who wanted to keep his job

I recognize you tend to see things in extremes, or black and white etc, but there's nuance involved here. Sean Peyton for example is an HC and offensive genius, but I've heard many referrences to how he gave his d-coordinator and GM the reigns on defensive personnel. In fact, going into one draft I specifically remember hearing talk about how Peyton was "giving the d what it wanted."

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Some of what you say is true. But RG3 is the most important piece to this franchise. Do you a la Jason Campbell him and bring in a new staff, and make him learn a new offense? Let him grow in this offense. Keep molding it around him. For the most part they've done a good job with him. Why change that? What I would do is completly strip Mike Shanahan of all personel decisions. Just let him coach the team and let the front office folks bring in the players.

"We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning
to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later
in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing;
and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress
while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization."

Charlton Ogburn, Jr.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

What head coach would agree to having no influence over the defense or personnel decisions?

Zorn.

And that worked just swell.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

The fact is, EVERYONE can see that RG3 is going to be an absolute lock of an elite QB. Shoot, he already is. If he can do this well in his rookie season, look out world. Our point is, even with RG3's stupendous games and performances, far and away better than even the most optimistic of redskins fans ever expected, we are still winning 33% of our games in year 3, are a week away from being 3-6 and almost out of the race in a weak NFC East. We have no depth in the secondary, and I really hope we keep winning the game of russian roulette with our Olines health. Getting off point a little, but here's the thing.

With the talent at QB, ANY coach could be 3-5. RG3 is making it VERY easy for Shanahan, and we are still not winning. We are in the cellar of the NFCE yet again, with the cowboys and the eagles both ripe for the taking. Mike Shanahans inability to take advantage of certain situations, and then blaming other people or injuries or whoever he wants to pin it on is wearing thin, especially when you currently hold one of the hottest, if not THE hottest weapon in the entire NFL. With RG3, I would say many coaches could be 5-3 or even 6-2 at this point, maybe even 7-1, RG3 has done that well. It takes a special kind of coach to have RG3, and still lose like we have been losing. And for the renowned Shanahan discipline, ummmm, what discipline? I can attribute 2 losses directly to horrible discipline, idiot penalties and lack of focus. And one on a kicker that HE himself brought in, yet another Shanahan signing, which blew up in his face. The guy makes questionable move after questionable move, keeps the skins in the cellar of the NFCE, yet he needs more time. Time to what? To tutor RG3? Gimme a break. Im tired of giving him a pass, ESPECIALLY now that he has his QB, and the team continues its march down Underperform Street.

Dude im on your side. I was saying exactly what you just said. If you back up Smoot had said I think you are missing our point. I than was saying - no your point was - but he aint winning with rg 3 either. Perfectly good argument and must have taken you a while to get that all out but you are preaching to the choir. Lol.


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[punch it in]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Just for clarity, I would trust that the mods - as always - have the discretion to not go ban crazy and also not be NFL refs and get the 2nd guy.

If someone were to come in yelling in every frickin post of his/hers how awesome KS is and how that play was drawn up for a 99 yard TD, if only Morris had cut left, or other ridiculous things than that would be as open to the in-season ban as someone who claims that 1 high turnover game out of 7 is the result of KS's stale playcalling, or citing for the 100th time in 101 posts that MS only won SB's with Elway.

I also don't expect Matty or Smoot to really do something that draconian as an in-season ban, but when 7% of respondents believe something, and one or two of those 7% take it on themselves to put it out there in every post regardless of thread subject matter, then I think its fair for the other 93%
to want the mods to keep the Warpath "Actively refreshing" not "tired and depressing"

I totally agree about the thread hi jacking. Which is why this one must remain open. Its a final resting place for all of the redundant arguments from both sides. There are alot more than 7 percent who could want him gone next week if we lose to the lowly panthers, let alone after the season. The other thing i have noticed is that ALOT of other threads get hijacked when the "apologists" start something with an off topic comment like - " yeah like maybe we should blame MS for this too" / sarcasm - lol". That happens ALL the time. You want to say the "haters" just bust into threads Shanny bashing for no reason - but it is ALWAYS predecessed by a little spark like the comment above. Always.


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[punch it in]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Still wonder why coaches like Bill Walsh and Bill Belichek get all the glory for winning their SBs even though they've never won without their HoF QBs, but Mike gets zero credit for winning 2 SBs. They give the credit to Elway.



You can't have it both ways. Either Walsh,McCarthy, Tomlin, Johnson, BB, and Mike were ALL carried by their QBs or they weren't.


Fact is, nobody can point to me in the past 2 decades of a coach winning the SB without a stud at the Qb spot. There were only 2 times these past 20 years it hasn't happened.

1) Baltimore Ravens
2) Tampa Bay Bucs


I imagine you can figure out what those two teams had in common.

Cus Belechik and Walsh never went 13 seasons barely sniffing the playoffs for one. Also they built great teams - lott, rice , - etc etc etc till the cows come home. Yes the qb's were there. He is here too. So maybe he will put a great team around Griff but he hasnt yet. You have no better reason to say he will than we to say he wont.

Edit: another thing - nobody wants shanny gone cus he isnt winning superbowls. How bout you look up how many teams have had more than five wins in a season over the past two decades without a stud qb?!?
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[DCtoAZ]

this poll is so stupid .. obviously 3-5 is not where we should be but you gotta be kidding me with how he is working with RG3 .. he's an offense guy and we have the best running game and a top 5 QB whose a rookie. Haslett now that's a different story .. btw the season aint over jesus everyone is so quick to jump ship it's annoying ... learn the game people ... 9-7 won super bowl last 2 years .. we can't go 8-8 or 9-7 with 5 DIVISION GAMES LEFT .. yeah we can actually .. Relax enjoy the RG3 show - ... we are a penalty away from possibly winning both Rams and Bengals games oh and yeah we had the Giants by the ball sack and gave that game up on DEFENSE ... just typing this i'm getting annoyed with fair weather skins' fans .. I predict 3 Wins a row inlcuding Turkey Day against the Cowgirls .. hmm that's 6-5 .. why not ? why not the Skins' officially closing the Eagles window next week ? we can't beat Dallas ?? Really ?? Grow a pair buckle down and let's rock n' roll

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Cus Belechik and Walsh never went 13 seasons barely sniffing the playoffs for one. Also they built great teams - lott, rice , - etc etc etc till the cows come home. Yes the qb's were there. He is here too. So maybe he will put a great team around Griff but he hasnt yet. You have no better reason to say he will than we to say he wont.

Edit: another thing - nobody wants shanny gone cus he isnt winning superbowls. How bout you look up how many teams have had more than five wins in a season over the past two decades without a stud qb?!?
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Walsh went 2-14 his first season. 6-10 his second season. He drafted Montana in 79 which was his first season. SO he's NEVER EVER coached another team to glory and has had the luxury of a HoF QB his entire tenure.

So how many winning seasons or Super Bowls did either of them win without their HoF QB??


Still haven't heard this answer yet.


This is about giving the man his credit and you guys simply aren't giving him any. You expect him to lead the league in offense with a broken down OL, shit WRs, and a bum QB. Once he gets legit weapons, you then say it's not because of him, but those players.

So again, I ask you, how successful was Walsh or Bellichek without those players? I'll be waiting ....

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by DCtoAZ

this poll is so stupid .. obviously 3-5 is not where we should be but you gotta be kidding me with how he is working with RG3 .. he's an offense guy and we have the best running game and a top 5 QB whose a rookie. Haslett now that's a different story .. btw the season aint over jesus everyone is so quick to jump ship it's annoying ... learn the game people ... 9-7 won super bowl last 2 years .. we can't go 8-8 or 9-7 with 5 DIVISION GAMES LEFT .. yeah we can actually .. Relax enjoy the RG3 show - ... we are a penalty away from possibly winning both Rams and Bengals games oh and yeah we had the Giants by the ball sack and gave that game up on DEFENSE ... just typing this i'm getting annoyed with fair weather skins' fans .. I predict 3 Wins a row inlcuding Turkey Day against the Cowgirls .. hmm that's 6-5 .. why not ? why not the Skins' officially closing the Eagles window next week ? we can't beat Dallas ?? Really ?? Grow a pair buckle down and let's rock n' roll

H y F r!!!

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by DCtoAZ

this poll is so stupid .. obviously 3-5 is not where we should be but you gotta be kidding me with how he is working with RG3 .. he's an offense guy and we have the best running game and a top 5 QB whose a rookie. Haslett now that's a different story .. btw the season aint over jesus everyone is so quick to jump ship it's annoying ... learn the game people ... 9-7 won super bowl last 2 years .. we can't go 8-8 or 9-7 with 5 DIVISION GAMES LEFT .. yeah we can actually .. Relax enjoy the RG3 show - ... we are a penalty away from possibly winning both Rams and Bengals games oh and yeah we had the Giants by the ball sack and gave that game up on DEFENSE ... just typing this i'm getting annoyed with fair weather skins' fans .. I predict 3 Wins a row inlcuding Turkey Day against the Cowgirls .. hmm that's 6-5 .. why not ? why not the Skins' officially closing the Eagles window next week ? we can't beat Dallas ?? Really ?? Grow a pair buckle down and let's rock n' roll

It must be Wednesday. Just about the time we are far enough removed from the prior Sunday. Ive given several pep speeches this year but now matter how buckled up i get my pair they havent kept us from losing. But atleast were "almost winning". There are those words again.


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[punch it in]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

So how many winning seasons or Super Bowls did either of them win without their HoF QB??


Still haven't heard this answer yet.


This is about giving the man his credit and you guys simply aren't giving him any. You expect him to lead the league in offense with a broken down OL, shit WRs, and a bum QB. Once he gets legit weapons, you then say it's not because of him, but those players.

So again, I ask you, how successful was Walsh or Bellichek without those players? I'll be waiting ....

I give coaches credit for winning. I dont care if we lose 100-99 or 100 - 0. I dont care if we got the best offense the best defense and the best hot dogs. Win and i will give him credit.
As for your question on the qb issue i answered you. Its not that black and white. Belechik just very recently won 11 games with gosh darn Matt Cassell. I dont give a flying crap if somehow that wasnt good enough to make the playoffs. And im just supposed to not consider 11 wins. It wasnt 2 wins with Cassell it was ELEVEN. On top of that they both architected or great teams around Montana and Brady. Shanny hasnt done that. He may have just drafted RG-3 - but RG-3 is not your typical rookie. He is playing like a seasoned veteran. We all agree on that. So Shanny is 3-5 with a stud qb. Do you not see the difference between that and the niners and pats? This is where we go into the give him two more years thing. Stay tuned.
Edit: as for Walsh first two seasons - before Montana - that team made the team that Shanny inherited look like a bikini clad super model on a hog farm. Under his guidance the team put several hall of fame/ pro bowl players around Montana. Lets see if Shanny pulls that off? Ill be waiting.

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[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by punch it in

I give coaches credit for winning. I dont care if we lose 100-99 or 100 - 0. I dont care if we got the best offense the best defense and the best hit dogs. Win and i will give him credit.
As for your question on the qb issue i answered you. Its not that black and white. Belechik just very recently won 11 games with gosh darn Matt Cassell. I dont give a flying crap if somehow that wasnt good enough to make the playoffs. And im just supposed to not consider 11 wins. It wasnt 2 wins with Cassell it was ELEVEN. On top of that they both architected or great teams around Montana and Brady. Shanny hasnt done that. He may have just drafted RG-3 - but RG-3 is not your typical rookie. He is playing like a seasoned veteran. We all agree on that. So Shanny is 3-5 with a stud qb. Do you not see the difference between that and the niners and pats? This is where we go into the give him two more years thing. Stay tuned.
Edit: as for Walsh first two seasons - before Montana - that team made the team that Shanny inherited look like a bikini clad super model on a hog farm.

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You want to know why he won 11 games without Brady? You do realize that team went 16-0 the year before and played in the Super Bowl. Did you expect that team drop off that much due to Brady alone? Nope. (also a clear sign that Manning was more important to his team than Brady)


Then explain to me Belichick's .450 winning percentage in Cleveland? Oh wait....YOU CANT.


You guys are a joke. You really are. You pumped up all these other coaches and yet these coaches have HoF QBs. You don't give Mike credit for shit, and when he does win, you turn around and say it's because of the QB.

Well guess ****ing what. Walsh, Belichick and ANY other coach out there winning super bowls and winning consistently has done so with a star at QB. SO either give Mike his due, or don't give anybody else theirs. If he's a bad coach, then so are the rest of the guys I've mentioned.

[Chico23231]

whew, this thread is exhausting. Firing Shanny would just be another embarrassment to the organization. I get the same response from everybody I talk to these days about the Skins usually along the lines "they really got something going now." The direction is up, crazy some dont see it that way.

[punch it in]

Ok im done. Back to the darkness that is post- sandy at the jersey shore. Go Shanny. Make me proud. Lets beat the hell out of Carolina and make our bye week a good one. If im lucky ill have power back for turkey day in dallas.


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