Who is Kirk Cousins?

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Why is our coaching staff reluctant to have Cousins throw the ball down the field:



Its either



A) They don't trust him



or



B) He cant



Which one folks?

What makes you think we have wr's running open downfield? Djax has hardly played. Don't remember him missing open guys so much as seeing our wr corp getting blanked downfield week in n week out. He could just chuck it up for grabs....

[NoCalHail]

I know a lot of people like to point to Jackson going out as the reason for the lack of downfield passing, but look around the league and you will see plenty of plays being made downfield that aren't to #1 WRs or guys considered "burners"

A lot of it is play design. I think in general a WCO is not a scheme with a ton of downfield passing. It's about WR's catching the football in space and racking up YAC. What this requires though is very good route running, timing, and the ball being delivered so the WR can catch the ball without breaking their running stride.

Watch the Pats offense and you will see what our offense should probably resemble. You will see Edleman catching most his passes at about 4-5 yards out, but he is running in full stride when the ball hits his hands.

DeSean Jackson adds an additional wrinkle to the offense because of his game breaking speed, but it's not like Gruden is re-designing the offense based on one WR.

It's interesting because a lot of modern WCO take the approach Reid did with the Eagles, which was the basic WCO principles but they added in a lot more downfield passing than what you would see from say a Bill Walsh offense. They also largely used running backs that could catch the ball and emphasized screen passes with more importance than running from behind the los. And it was interesting too because McNabb threw a a great deep ball and intermediate level ball, but struggled with accuracy on what were considered the typical "easy" short throws of a WCO, so go figure.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by NoCalHail

...It's interesting because a lot of modern WCO take the approach Reid did with the Eagles, which was the basic WCO principles but they added in a lot more downfield passing than what you would see from say a Bill Walsh offense....

"WCO" is a broad and often abused term.
But even the 'original' Bill Walsh WCO threw the ball downfield. And while throwing the ball quick and short is an aspect throwing the ball intermediate and downfield are certainly parts of the WCO. Deep outs, Digs, Comebacks, Post, Corners are all staples of Bill Walsh WCO.

Ironically it was Jay's brother that said ~'what do you call a coach and QB driving around throwing "hots"....dumb and dumber'

Bill Walsh even warned about "not being seduced by the relative ease of completing 3-step drop passes".

But you could argue that is exactly what this passing game is doing by design.

BTW 2 of top 5 offenses with passes 25 yards or more are WCO Green Bay #1 and KC #5.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Bill Walsh even warned about "not being seduced by the relative ease of completing 3-step drop passes".

But you could argue that is exactly what this passing game is doing by design.

On the importance of screen passes:

“They’re important, especially if you’re playing some of these pass rush teams that like to get up the field and rush. It slows them down a little bit. We have some linemen that are very athletic and can get out in space. Last week was really our first time, we had a lot of success with those screen passes and I expect us to have more as the season goes on. Some teams are not as easy to run screen passes against as others. These guys have two outstanding linebackers that can get really get off blocks and run. But for the most part, screens are a big benefit. I like simple plays that have high reward and low risk. As long as I trust the quarterback to make good [decisions] — if it is covered to throw it in the dirt — then those are good plays.”

- jay gruden 11.20.15


Quotes: Jay Gruden And Sean McVay (11.20.15)

[30gut]

Not sure how Jay's comments about screens related to my post *shrugs*

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Not sure how Jay's comments about screens related to my post *shrugs*

Just adding to the discussion about whether Jay/mcvay are overly concentrated on "not taking sacks .. getting the ball out quick" mantra ... falling in love with the low risk throws like screens and short 3 step passes. your post reminded me of the quote i read from jay's presser. thats all. just adding to the discussion. discussing stuff.

[Meks]

Pass pro sucked most of yesterday, wasnt alot of time for plays to develop to take shots downfield...
I really wish we would take more shots and go deep much more often tho

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Meks

Pass pro sucked most of yesterday, wasnt alot of time for plays to develop to take shots downfield...
I really wish we would take more shots and go deep much more often tho

Even in the Saints game, Cousins threw short. YAC was the real story of that game. When you go up against better pass defenses, you need to make better, tougher throws.

[NoCalHail]

Also, since we are on the topic of "throwing downfield" Let's also remember that throwing downfield is more than being able to heave a ball 50 yards in the air.

It's being able to throw 25 yards on a bee line into the hands of a WR who has maybe a half step on a defender. In the NFL you aren't going to see very many instances of the easy toss to Jackson we saw against Carolina. Even burners are normally much better covered and you have to make a tight throw over their shoulder.

[Bucket]

People going to be really upset when Gruden is going to back next year and Cousins..

Per Mike Silver today.

Not me though. As it shows the Organization is finally taking a step in a consistent level and ignoring the agenda fans.

[skinsfan69]

[QUOTE=Bucket;1129781]People going to be really upset when Gruden is going to back next year and Cousins..

Per Mike Silver today.

Not me though. As it shows the Organization is finally taking a step in a consistent level and ignoring the agenda fans.[/QUOTE]

This...

[Michaelt31]

Originally Posted by Bucket

People going to be really upset when Gruden is going to back next year and Cousins..

Per Mike Silver today.

Not me though. As it shows the Organization is finally taking a step in a consistent level and ignoring the agenda fans.

Consistently what, players lack of tackling, penalties, fines, and effort! If he doesn't win 8 games, why do you give him more thumbs up than Zorn. Why b/c he playing the qb you want? I think more fans want a coach that makes players more accountable and less media circus! This team more talented that any you can think of the last 6 years. And they playing in a below average division and he still losing games to below average teams. Even Tennessee, played Carolina though as we did. We only played two good teams, y'all act like we been playing Super Bowl contenders every week! I'll b disappointed if Gruden returns, cousin deserves another year at the right price!

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Michaelt31

Consistently what, players lack of tackling, penalties, fines, and effort! If he doesn't win 8 games, why do you give him more thumbs up than Zorn. Why b/c he playing the qb you want? I think more fans want a coach that makes players more accountable and less media circus! This team more talented that any you can think of the last 6 years. And they playing in a below average division and he still losing games to below average teams. Even Tennessee, played Carolina though as we did. We only played two good teams, y'all act like we been playing Super Bowl contenders every week! I'll b disappointed if Gruden returns, cousin deserves another year at the right price!

In all fairness, the Jets and Falcons were both hot when we played them. Pats, Panthers, Giants. I count one bad loss to the Fins.

[Michaelt31]

Originally Posted by punch it in

In all fairness, the Jets and Falcons were both hot when we played them. Pats, Panthers, Giants. I count one bad loss to the Fins.

Hot, what their record since we played? Let me guess, we made them cold, or maybe they wasn't that good. Falcons done had more games given to them, than they just won. Jets, a one trick piney, and the Gaints was 0-2 when we played them. I guess you call that hot, what you call 2-0?

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Why is our coaching staff reluctant to have Cousins throw the ball down the field:

I don't think trust or ability is the issue when it comes to downfield passing.

I think Kirk has a decent enough arm. And I believe Jay/McVay have a lot of faith in Kirk as QB.

I think the coaching is the main reason for lack of downfield passing.

I think there has been such an emphasis placed on 'not taking sacks' and getting the ball out quick that it has come at the detriment of the main reason to throw the ball in the first place: chunk yardage.

This passing offense is largely imho geared towards 'replacing the run game'.
We don't throw the "big ball".

The offense is 30th in passes over 25 yards.
30th.

We're 22nd in YPA (up from 30th helped in large part by the Saints game where the huge jump in YPA came from 80% yards after catch)

I think the coaches do a poor job of scheming 'big throws'.
I think Kirk sticks closely to the 'don't take sacks' mantra.