Who starts at QB?

[JWsleep]

Redskins fans LOVE a QB debate, no doubt!

Here's a possibility--the best player in camp will be #1, the next best will be #2, and the third best will be #3. I know this sounds INSANE, and how could Scheffer be wrong, and how could Gibbs not already be sure, but this is what I think maybe, possibly, conceivably, is what's going to happen. :frusty:

[scowan]

Originally Posted by Big C

todd collins will be the starting QB opening day

Big C.... What are you talking about!!!! Collins the Starter on opening Day! Give me a break. He is a $2.5 million clipboard holder and player/coach to bring Campbell along. Nothing more!

[WillH]

One thing I think has to be said about Brunell's inability to create an offensive production at the end of last season is that it wasn't simply due to his injuries. At the end of last season Mark had noone to throw the ball to. Moss was double teamed, Patten was on IR, Jacobs and Thrash were simply absymal, and short passes to Cooley and Portis couldn't give us the downfeild threat necessary to get the db's on their heels and to keep frequent blitzes from coming. I think that it is very possible that Brunell in the same condition he ended this past season, could have enough options now with the addition of Randle El and Lloyd, and a healthy Patten in rotation, (And also Saunders' throroughly productive offenssive system) to put up enough points to win in the playoffs, especially with an increaingly efficient Williams defense keeping them on the feild. At this point Jason Campbell hasn't proved he can perform in the NFL. So if I were to put money on whether Brunell or Campbell have a better chance to win us a superbowl, Id put it all on Brunell. Last year with no other downfeild threat then moss, was able to pass for just as many or more TD's then he ever did in Jacksonville. I dont think we should discount him simply because he showed signs of wear at the end of the season. Yeah Gibb's got Campbel for the Redskins future, but the team is Brunells until he proves to be more competant. I for one wouldn't feel comfortable with a second year QB at the helm of the offense. And for those who are inevitably going to mention Rothlisberger, you cannot base your argument for Campbells ability on another players success. So until the season I guess we'll have to wait, but for now Im sold on Brunell.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

We have waited way to long to deal Ramsey.

I know in hindsight, the redskins should have dealt him a long time ago - but you can't live by hindsight, we don't have the power to go back in time. We can't really look at it like that, if we did then you can make the argument that the redskins shouldn't have really drafted him if they knew that he wasn't really going to have a chance. But they didn't really know that. You can only decide and plan things on what you know and what you feel. I'm sure gibbs didn't know that he was planning to pull out Ramsey before the first game was through, but he went with his gut and look how that turned out. And with Ramsey, I personally can't back a player that doesn't get that stamp of approval from gibbs. I couldn't argue with his success of qb decisions, which includes Brunell.

The best thing to do at this point is - keep Ramsey and hope the market for him heats up. The redskins may be able to keep him until the rookies sign because that cap space would have to be reserved for them anyways.

[RiggoRules]

Maybe R-El will get some snaps. ;-)

Seriously, the QB position is the scariest part of this roster. The Campbell move last year was a gigantic gamble.

The pre-season will be fodder for lots of great discussions.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by scowan

Big C.... What are you talking about!!!! Collins the Starter on opening Day! Give me a break. He is a $2.5 million clipboard holder and player/coach to bring Campbell along. Nothing more!

I think the C in Big C stands for Comedian...he was joking, weren't you Big C?

[Grayacre]

Originally Posted by NFLeurope

I apologize in advance to anyone this post might annoy or if this momentarily brings back to life...the old ass tired Ramsey-Brunell debate.

It is my personal belief that Ramsey given the weapons we now have...could...(and i think and have thought for a long time) should be the guy to lead us deep into the playoffs. I just really wish he had gotten a shot here.

I agree with nearly everything you wrote, NFLeurope, except for your opening apology. I will not apologize for calling the way that the 'Skins have treated Ramsey a disgrace. I hope that he lands in a good situation for next season.

[PWNED]

true. they might have shafted him just a touch, but still its obvious he was not the better QB.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by Grayacre

I agree with nearly everything you wrote, NFLeurope, except for your opening apology. I will not apologize for calling the way that the 'Skins have treated Ramsey a disgrace. I hope that he lands in a good situation for next season.

I wouldn't be that harsh in calling the treatment of Ramsey (or Arrington, for that matter) a disgrace. There have been great players that have played for other teams that have been treated with a lot less consideration. These decisions have been made for what the redskins think is best for the team. I don't think they intentionally treated them unfairly. Maybe Snyder was upset at Arrington or Ramsey or both, but I don't think the recent decisions were made based on his opinion of them.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Grayacre

I agree with nearly everything you wrote, NFLeurope, except for your opening apology. I will not apologize for calling the way that the 'Skins have treated Ramsey a disgrace. I hope that he lands in a good situation for next season.

I really hate to get back into this but it bugs the hell out of me.. How was the way Ramsey treated 'a disgrace'? The 2 training camps that he flopped? The 2 pre-seasons he played crappily thru? The turnovers when he played in the regular season? The sacks because he held the ball for......ev......er....?

Guys, he didn't step up and grab the job, electrify the team, wow the coaches, establish that he was unquestionably, unequivocably THE MAN so please spare us the 'Ramsey never had a chance' bs..

If he came in and played like Elway or Favre (both of whom he's been compared to in this thread) then we wouldn't be having this discussion.. He came in and played like Gus Frerotte and his career path is following accordingly..

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

I know in hindsight, the redskins should have dealt him a long time ago - but you can't live by hindsight, we don't have the power to go back in time. We can't really look at it like that, if we did then you can make the argument that the redskins shouldn't have really drafted him if they knew that he wasn't really going to have a chance. But they didn't really know that. You can only decide and plan things on what you know and what you feel. I'm sure gibbs didn't know that he was planning to pull out Ramsey before the first game was through, but he went with his gut and look how that turned out. And with Ramsey, I personally can't back a player that doesn't get that stamp of approval from gibbs. I couldn't argue with his success of qb decisions, which includes Brunell.

The best thing to do at this point is - keep Ramsey and hope the market for him heats up. The redskins may be able to keep him until the rookies sign because that cap space would have to be reserved for them anyways.

Gibbs knew Ramsey was not his guy when he got here. The signing of Brunell, the drafting of Campbell. That pretty much sums it up. I know we can go back in time, (unless my experiment works, in which I am going to be really, really rich and buy the skins from Danny). That was a decision that should have been made earlier, that is all I am saying. The writing was on the wall when he signed Brunell and drafted Campbell. We could have gotten a much higher pick, hell a pick at all since now we get dick!!

[RedskinRat]

1) Campbell
2) Brunell
3) Collins

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

Gibbs knew Ramsey was not his guy when he got here. The signing of Brunell, the drafting of Campbell. That pretty much sums it up. I know we can go back in time, (unless my experiment works, in which I am going to be really, really rich and buy the skins from Danny). That was a decision that should have been made earlier, that is all I am saying. The writing was on the wall when he signed Brunell and drafted Campbell. We could have gotten a much higher pick, hell a pick at all since now we get dick!!

But why would he then keep him and let him start the first game ? Just so he can stick it to ramsey and say i'll waste one of your years in the nfl - I don't think that Gibbs is vindictive like that, and if he was - he had nothing against ramsey. Like someone posted - Theisman was with the redskins before gibbs, and i'm sure he would have liked ramsey to succeed just as well. I just don't understand why he would intentionally wait to deal ramsey, if he knew that he wouldn't give ramsey a chance. It just sucks for everyone involved - the redskins team, ramsey, and gibbs, himself.

[BrudLee]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

But why would he then keep him and let him start the first game ? Just so he can stick it to ramsey and say i'll waste one of your years in the nfl - I don't think that Gibbs is vindictive like that, and if he was - he had nothing against ramsey. Like someone posted - Theisman was with the redskins before gibbs, and i'm sure he would have liked ramsey to succeed just as well. I just don't understand why he would intentionally wait to deal ramsey, if he knew that he wouldn't give ramsey a chance. It just sucks for everyone involved - the redskins team, ramsey, and gibbs, himself.

I think that in looking for a villain in the Ramsey situation, we are forgetting the facts.

1) Gibbs gave the job, grudingly, to Ramsey after Brunell's horrible 2004 season - one that was marred by injury. Clearly he preferred Brunell's decision-making, but Ramsey's arm was measurably better than Brunell's.

2) Ramsey made several mistakes in his opening game - understandable mistakes, but mistakes nonetheless. Ramsey threw an interception on his second pass of the game, and his other two drives ended with fumbles, including the one on his injury that was recovered by Chicago. Ramsey finished 6 of 11 for 105 yards with two sacks and a 49.4 passer rating. Brunell, while not explosive, managed three scoring drives. Error-free football wins the day, and Brunell emerges the starter.

3) Trade overtures from the Jets (and other teams) at the deadline, would have left the team scrambling for a credible backup. The only other QB on the roster was Campbell, who was not ready for the job. While the offers were reportedly better than the ones we are hearing now, we would have left the franchise to a player who wasn't healthy enough to finish the previous year, with a rookie or someone off the street to replace him in case of injury.

Though we didn't need Ramsey on the team (he played only sparingly in blowouts the remainder of the season), that couldn't have been clear in late September, when the Jets were making overtures. Keeping Ramsey wasn't a question of Gibbs trying to screw Ramsey or anyone else, it was Gibbs trying to field the best roster he could in 2005.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by BrudLee

I think that in looking for a villain in the Ramsey situation, we are forgetting the facts.

1) Gibbs gave the job, grudingly, to Ramsey after Brunell's horrible 2004 season - one that was marred by injury. Clearly he preferred Brunell's decision-making, but Ramsey's arm was measurably better than Brunell's.

2) Ramsey made several mistakes in his opening game - understandable mistakes, but mistakes nonetheless. Ramsey threw an interception on his second pass of the game, and his other two drives ended with fumbles, including the one on his injury that was recovered by Chicago. Ramsey finished 6 of 11 for 105 yards with two sacks and a 49.4 passer rating. Brunell, while not explosive, managed three scoring drives. Error-free football wins the day, and Brunell emerges the starter.

3) Trade overtures from the Jets (and other teams) at the deadline, would have left the team scrambling for a credible backup. The only other QB on the roster was Campbell, who was not ready for the job. While the offers were reportedly better than the ones we are hearing now, we would have left the franchise to a player who wasn't healthy enough to finish the previous year, with a rookie or someone off the street to replace him in case of injury.

Though we didn't need Ramsey on the team (he played only sparingly in blowouts the remainder of the season), that couldn't have been clear in late September, when the Jets were making overtures. Keeping Ramsey wasn't a question of Gibbs trying to screw Ramsey or anyone else, it was Gibbs trying to field the best roster he could in 2005.

I agree. Let me also add something to this - I personally think one of the greatest if not the greatest decision of 2005 was the decision to pull Ramsey and replace him with Brunell. It took a lot of courage for Gibbs to go with his instinct which went against the conventional reasoning of the masses- this was really the first time he did this since he has unretired. I know how there are some that disagree with his treatment of and decisions on ramsey, but I can't argue with the success of 2005.