Sell Me A Car-What Should I Buy

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by cpayne5

Of those cars that you bolded, there are several world class cars in there that are VERY high quality. I think your statement, and post in general, exemplifies the type of attitude that the CNN article above argues is unfounded.

The article states that it depends on whose survey you believe, first and foremost. Consumer Reports doesn't rate the American's nearly as highly, and there's a good reason.

But that's besides the point. Take a look at JD Power's survey ratings. Of course the American luxury brands should rank higher than any non-luxury brand. It makes sense, after all you're paying 20-40% more for the car when you buy a luxury model.

JD Power's Ratings (based on problems per 100 vehicles during first 3 years)
Lexus (luxury)
Lincoln (luxury)
Buick (luxury)
Cadillac (luxury)
Infiniti (luxury)
Toyota
Mercury
Honda
Acura (luxury)
Ford
Saturn
Chevy
Oldsmobile
GMC
Pontiac
Mazda
Subaru
Nissan
Mitsubishi
Suzuki
Isuzu

My other problem with JD Power's survey, it rates cars based on the first 3 years only. But everyone here will acknowledge that the Japanese makes do a lot better in the later years than the American makes. Consumer Reports has used car ratings which measure the life of cars over a greater period of time, and they have the Americans down a peg.

And did JD Power not even rate Hyundai??? The JD Power data is garbage in this case.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by dmek25

no,i dont own a lexus,my daughter does.got it for school when i couldnt talk her into buying american.im proud to say i have never owned anything but american in my lifetime

If you paid for her college tuition you've owned it alright.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Hell, buy American. Buy a tank.

[saden1]

I'm I the only one who thinks JD Powers is a big whore...they'll take your money in exchange for a shiny trophy.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

I think that's why cpayne's article was so on point to this discussion. Everyone just assumes that Acura, Honda, BMW and Toyota produce so much better cars than anything GM can put out, but it's just not true. To the extent you can point to lower quality lines like Chevy and Ford, and simply discount Caddillac, Lincoln, and Buick, I could easily point to Mitsubishi, Subaru and Nissan and discount Toyota and Honda. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's not as simple as Japan v. USA. There are way too many variations in "foreign" or even "Japanese" cars to simply say that they are better than "American" cars. You'd never catch me buying a Ford (no offense to anyone else), but you'd also never catch me buying a Mitsubishi.

True.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

But that's exactly my point. Too often foreign car buyers make blanket statements about "American cars" that might be supportable if they cite to cars like the Dodge Neon, Ford Escort, or Chevy Cavalier. I've conceeded that in that segment the Japanese have the edge. Basically I was warning about the same thing you mentioned here too: i.e. let's keep it apples to apples and not make broad generalizations.



Well, like I said, we could sit here and argue specifics, but I think you are discounting many of the cars I mentioned based on your own biases. The Covette consistently gets rave reviews for being one of the best performance cars in the world for the money. The Cadillac CTS isn't high in quality? I'd take serious issue with that. The Charger has gotten exceptional reviews for its bang-for-the-buck.

Really a lot of this comes down to personal preference. But my personal preference for American cars doesn't have me making broad statements about other foreign cars. I mean, personally, I wouldn't trade you my friend's lexus SUV for my Denali unless he threw in an extra 10 grand. Quality? I've ridden in it, it's an ok car. Overpriced for the money, lacks features, lacks power, and is fairly uninspiring. But again, that's just my preference.

My other friend's BMW 3 series? I dusted it with my old 2001 Stratus RT, and I had less problems with my car in 5 years than he had in 3 with his. Quality? Not from what we saw.

I think that's why cpayne's article was so on point to this discussion. Everyone just assumes that Acura, Honda, BMW and Toyota produce so much better cars than anything GM can put out, but it's just not true. To the extent you can point to lower quality lines like Chevy and Ford, and simply discount Caddillac, Lincoln, and Buick, I could easily point to Mitsubishi, Subaru and Nissan and discount Toyota and Honda. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's not as simple as Japan v. USA. There are way too many variations in "foreign" or even "Japanese" cars to simply say that they are better than "American" cars. You'd never catch me buying a Ford (no offense to anyone else), but you'd also never catch me buying a Mitsubishi.

I agree that it comes down to personal preference a lot of the time. From what I can gather from your posts, you tend to judge quality based on the car's performance (engine strength, handling, feel etc) and your personal experience with it. I personally place a great deal of importance on crash tests and scientific surveys examining reliability for the long term.

In the end we're just looking at different things, I think. When I say quality, I'm thinking along the lines of how often is this thing going to break down or need repairs. To me, a car is simply something that can get me from point A to point B consistently, safely, affordably, and comfortably. I could care less what it looks like, how fast it accelerates, what color it is, etcetera.

There are American models which rate ahead of the Japanese, I don't mean to make a blanket statement saying all Japanese cars are better. So you definitely have to compare model to model. But in the end, there's a reason that the Toyota and Honda brands have a better reputation.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Hell, buy American. Buy a tank.

Why stop there? Boeing Wants You, buy a 747!

[TheMalcolmConnection]

But I hear those 747s get HORRIBLE gas milesage.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

My other problem with JD Power's survey, it rates cars based on the first 3 years only. But everyone here will acknowledge that the Japanese makes do a lot better in the later years than the American makes. Consumer Reports has used car ratings which measure the life of cars over a greater period of time, and they have the Americans down a peg.

I wouldn't acknowledge that. Like I said before, my parents have never kept a car for less than 10 years, and have never had major problems with their American cars. In fact, I can't wait to get around most older Japanese cars I get stuck behind because I can't stand the blue smoke from the burning oil that comes billowing out their tailpipes. Yet my best friend's 1985 Monte Carlo SS with the original engine and transmission and 150k+ miles doesn't do that. And my 1984 Cutlass Supreme with 120k+ never did that. And my wife's 1991 Lebaron Convertible with over 112k miles that we just sold didn't do it. I guess everyone's experiences are different.

[FRPLG]

Couple of things that makes me wonder a little about the JD stuff is the fact that the Mercury and Ford are rated slightly different. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't a lot of the Mercurys just reworked Fords? I know at last a few of the models are simply a Ford with a different body. Also the ommision of Hyundai is weird.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

I think that's why cpayne's article was so on point to this discussion. Everyone just assumes that Acura, Honda, BMW and Toyota produce so much better cars than anything GM can put out, but it's just not true. To the extent you can point to lower quality lines like Chevy and Ford, and simply discount Caddillac, Lincoln, and Buick, I could easily point to Mitsubishi, Subaru and Nissan and discount Toyota and Honda. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's not as simple as Japan v. USA. There are way too many variations in "foreign" or even "Japanese" cars to simply say that they are better than "American" cars. You'd never catch me buying a Ford (no offense to anyone else), but you'd also never catch me buying a Mitsubishi.

You're right, it's not country vs country. To me, it's Toyota and Honda (Japan's best) vs GM (America's best). Toyota and Honda outrank GM in just about every class of vehicle.

Then if you want to compare luxury line to luxury line, then you're talking Lexus vs Buick. And Japan still wins. America competes better in the luxury lines though.

Again, you have to go class to class, model to model to really compare. And if you do that, Toyota and Honda come out on top more often.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I go on the reputation of the cars themselves, not the makers. If one model of the Geo Metro is supposedly superior to the Civic, I would get it (after LOTS of research).

Just because a car is American, Japanese or Hindii, doesn't mean it's going to be a bad car. A lot of parts come from different manufacturers. I have a Mazda3 and it most of the inside parts are Ford Focus, the transmission is Volvo and there's some random parts inside and out from other places.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

I wouldn't acknowledge that. Like I said before, my parents have never kept a car for less than 10 years, and have never had major problems with their American cars. In fact, I can't wait to get around most older Japanese cars I get stuck behind because I can't stand the blue smoke from the burning oil that comes billowing out their tailpipes. Yet my best friend's 1985 Monte Carlo SS with the original engine and transmission and 150k+ miles doesn't do that. And my 1984 Cutlass Supreme with 120k+ never did that. And my wife's 1991 Lebaron Convertible with over 112k miles that we just sold didn't do it. I guess everyone's experiences are different.

Yeah you're kind of basing your judgments on anectdotal evidence you've witnessed, which isn't exactly scientific, nor is it a big enough sample size to pass any meaningful judgment.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

I wouldn't acknowledge that. Like I said before, my parents have never kept a car for less than 10 years, and have never had major problems with their American cars. In fact, I can't wait to get around most older Japanese cars I get stuck behind because I can't stand the blue smoke from the burning oil that comes billowing out their tailpipes. Yet my best friend's 1985 Monte Carlo SS with the original engine and transmission and 150k+ miles doesn't do that. And my 1984 Cutlass Supreme with 120k+ never did that. And my wife's 1991 Lebaron Convertible with over 112k miles that we just sold didn't do it. I guess everyone's experiences are different.

And besides, right now you're mentioning cars that are friggin 20 years old. Nobody would buy a 1985 vehicle now. If you're serious about buying a car right now, you're talking about something from 2000 or later. Quality has changed a ton over the last 20 years.

Toyota and Honda have been pwning GM for the last five years in the ratings. Those are the relevant years to this discussion, since few would buy a car older than that.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I agree that it comes down to personal preference a lot of the time. From what I can gather from your posts, you tend to judge quality based on the car's performance (engine strength, handling, feel etc) and your personal experience with it. I personally place a great deal of importance on crash tests and scientific surveys examining reliability for the long term.

In the end we're just looking at different things, I think. When I say quality, I'm thinking along the lines of how often is this thing going to break down or need repairs. To me, a car is simply something that can get me from point A to point B consistently, safely, affordably, and comfortably. I could care less what it looks like, how fast it accelerates, what color it is, etcetera.

There are American models which rate ahead of the Japanese, I don't mean to make a blanket statement saying all Japanese cars are better. So you definitely have to compare model to model. But in the end, there's a reason that the Toyota and Honda brands have a better reputation.

They have a reputation because people like you keep making these silly posts!

Actually I think you are right on mostly here. It really does come down to what's important and personal experiences. I've never had my American cars really let me down. If I had a ton of bad exeriences, I might be singing a different tune. And to me, performance is a really big deal. I simply can't drive a Camry with a 4 cylinder engine because my penis is just too small for that.......so I need something that can represent a bigger extension of my schwanger. I also have this road rage problem that mandates a faster car to either catch up to someone to flip them off or to get away from the wrong guy who I just flipped off.

Seriously though, I think my only real problem was people making blanket generalizations. I'm not going to sit here and tell people the Neon is a great car. But that doesn't mean the Cadillac CTS or Envoy or Charger or G6 can't be good either. Just like it'd be unfair to lable a suzuki or isuzu a great car just because it's japanese. If people want to make specific recommendations about specific cars they have some knowledge about, that's great.......but not at the expense of ripping an entire country's automobiles.