At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Keep in mind, Joe Gibbs's plan for this team was to rebuild the franchise. That is his number one goal. However, he also wanted to find a group of guys he felt could give the redskins the best chance to win now. I think what Gibbs is finding difficult is the fact that while you can go out and get just about any guy you want, it's hard to keep some of the good guys you already have.

I truly believe that the benefits we reap from Gibbs will probably become known after Gibbs steps aside. Not that Gibbs can't make those players win, but that it may take a year or two past Gibbs' contract in order to finish the development.

Again, I think we're just in the age of instant gradification. If it doesn't work right away, we need to trash it all and start all over again. For some who say we need to get a new coach, and I realize it's not many saying that, keep in mind that getting a new head coach means getting a whole new coaching staff (more than likely) and getting rid of players who don't fit the system, etc.....this is something I want this franchise to finally avoid.

Instant gratification? At the beginning of the '07 campaign Gibbs will have two more years left on his contract. So you have to figure, things will have to start cooking real soon for the Redskins.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I'll be called a "yes man" for sure, but I really believe there are some people who have the right-however frustrating it may be for people-to decide when they want to leave. Dean Smith, Bobby Cox, Greg Popovich, Bobby Bowden, Joe Gibbs, to name a few.

This is what I would said. He is a legend. Our legend. The man has worked his butt off through two stints to win games for us. The first time got it done and I still believe he can get it done this time. I'd expect him to resign before I could ever admit that he needed to go. I can't even fathom what it would take for me to think that he can't make this work. I don't think it is blind optimism but actually faith based on results. What everyone wants to believe is that we won every game we ever played under Gibbs the first time around. Well guess what, we didn't. We had plenty of 9-7/10-6 years and had plenty of big losses. The league is even more competitive now and when he came here I think we can honestly admit that we were on the low side in terms of talent. There have been missteps for sure but I think the biggest misstep he made was allowing everyone to believe we were better than we were. Now he looks bad and everyone is pissed. But what exactly has he done that has hurt this team? Can anyone say this team is worse off now than when he came? I don't if it is but I haven't heard anyone say he has done a bad job. Just that he hasn't done all the right things. To me he has plenty of leash. He earned it.

[hurrykaine]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

brian billick - offensive genius w/poor offense
m. Lewis - def. guru w/poor defense
tuna - discipinarian whose team is among league leaders in penalties & who is just over .500 since coaching cowpokes
j. gruden - struggling O even when simms was healthy

Gibbs' offenses have struggled, but made great strides last year & we went to the 2nd rnd. Just take a look around the league & run the numbers on any given coach. Aside from Bellicheck, Reid, Shanahan & maybe Cowher, ups & downs are the norm in today's nfl. Even those guys had down years, see Philly last year & Pitt this year. Mike Holmgren was about to lose his job, then went to a super bowl.
The days of Gibbs I, Landry, B.Grant & Chuck Noll are long over. Its a lot harder to maintain a winning record & continuity for a long career. Bottom line, Gibbs got us back in the playoffs & had people talkin super bowl. Even if this year we don't make the playoffs, if JC turns out to be the real deal, Gibbs will have given us stability that we haven't seen since he left. If I have to lose, I'll lose w/Gibbs anyday before letting snyder open his checkbook to the next savior.

If we stink it up again next year, and Belichik were available as a coach, what would you do? What if Andy Reid were available? I guess the question is, which current generation coach (as opposed to old school - Parcells, Marty, etc.) would you take over Gibbs?

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I agree, Irish. The only point I'm making is failure is failure whether we're talking about Joe Gibbs or the newest coach in the NFL. And I think it's possible that we sometimes become jaded by past success or reputation when dealing with certain individuals that we've endeared ourselves to.

I'm not advocating a switch by any means.

Call it what you like, but Your the coach. You have two QB's, one has to go. Both on the back of side of a losing season You have Joe Montana, and Heath Shuler, who goes???????????? Losing is not losing, as Montana will bring you back and Shuler......well

[GhettoDogAllStars]

I agree with Daseal that 3 years should be enough time for a coach to prove he's legit. However, if a coach doesn't do it in three it doesn't mean that he can't. You have to look at the reasons for failure. For example, if a coach can't win in three years, it might be because of excessive injuries--not poor coaching.

That said, I'd like to keep Gibbs until he can't do the job anymore (probably when he's about 70). Gibbs doesn't have to prove ANYTHING. You don't give Gibbs a three year probation period, just to see what he's got. If you don't know what Gibbs can do, then you shouldn't be making the decision about when he should leave. And all that talk about the NFL passing Gibbs by is nonsense. Most people don't realize how difficult it is to win the NFL--even with all the right players and coaches.

[hurrykaine]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

This is what I would said. He is a legend. Our legend. The man has worked his butt off through two stints to win games for us. The first time got it done and I still believe he can get it done this time. I'd expect him to resign before I could ever admit that he needed to go. I can't even fathom what it would take for me to think that he can't make this work. I don't think it is blind optimism but actually faith based on results. What everyone wants to believe is that we won every game we ever played under Gibbs the first time around. Well guess what, we didn't. We had plenty of 9-7/10-6 years and had plenty of big losses. The league is even more competitive now and when he came here I think we can honestly admit that we were on the low side in terms of talent. There have been missteps for sure but I think the biggest misstep he made was allowing everyone to believe we were better than we were. Now he looks bad and everyone is pissed. But what exactly has he done that has hurt this team? Can anyone say this team is worse off now than when he came? I don't if it is but I haven't heard anyone say he has done a bad job. Just that he hasn't done all the right things. To me he has plenty of leash. He earned it.

Good post..We did have those 9-7 & 10-6 yrs under Gibbs v1, however, we were always competitive. How many 6-10 years did we have? How many losses to bad non-division teams such as the current Clevelands, Oaklands, Tennessees etc under Gibbs v1? How many games where the offense has failed to score a TD before garbage time?

I'm perfectly willing to admit the fault isn't with Gibbs. Maybe its his supporting cast of coaches on offense - Breaux, Bugel, Burns, etc. that are over the hill. But Gibbs did bring in his personal entourage. And Brunell. And if Campbell doesn't pan out, Gibbs will also be responsible for erring on that front.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

The normal coach should get 3 years, but 3 Super Bowl rings buys you a little extra time.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

I agree with Daseal that 3 years should be enough time for a coach to prove he's legit. However, if a coach doesn't do it in three it doesn't mean that he can't. You have to look at the reasons for failure. For example, if a coach can't win in three years, it might be because of excessive injuries--not poor coaching.

That said, I'd like to keep Gibbs until he can't do the job anymore (probably when he's about 70). Gibbs doesn't have to prove ANYTHING. You don't give Gibbs a three year probation period, just to see what he's got. If you don't know what Gibbs can do, then you shouldn't be making the decision about when he should leave. And all that talk about the NFL passing Gibbs by is nonsense. Most people don't realize how difficult it is to win the NFL--even with all the right players and coaches.

We can slice this any way we want, but come training camp '07, the Redskins will be on a 2 year time table. You think the expectations and scrutiny is high now, just wait another 6 months.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by hurrykaine

If we stink it up again next year, and Belichik were available as a coach, what would you do? What if Andy Reid were available? I guess the question is, which current generation coach (as opposed to old school - Parcells, Marty, etc.) would you take over Gibbs?

that's a good question. I don't think Bellicheck would succeed in Danny's mgmt. style, unless he got full control a la Marty. If I'd take anyone though, I'd take Bellicheck, but I'd honestly rather see Gibbs, a true Redskin, coach our team.
What is another interesting scenario is if Gibbs decided to hire a head coach & simply serve as team president. I know GW is already in line, but it's possible that Gibbs might not actually coach his last 2 years, but still remain w/the team & fulfill his contract.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by RiggoRules

It is all about the rings on Gibbs hands.

As a result, there is only one person who is in a position to call for Joe Gibbs to resign:

Mrs. Gibbs.

Dan Snyder isn't going to. Some bitter reporters and talk show hosts might, but who cares.

Could you imagine being Dan Snyder in this situation? I mean put aside any hatred you may have for the man (and by you, I mean the general Warpath public, not you specifically RiggoRules). Just think of what it would be like to idolize someone growing up and the next thing you know you're his boss. I couldn't fathom that. Having a "hero" report to me. And then face the possibility of having to make a hard decision like saying he's not getting the job done

[Dogtag]

I think the time will be right when the coach with a better resume and love for the team presents himself to the owners.

Is there a rumor out there that this mystery coach is seeking the Redskins head coaching position?

The goal is to better the organization, not to make changes because the team's offensive and/or defense is playing poorly.

[memphisskin]

I think the question isn't "Is Gibbs getting the job done" but rather, "Is the franchise in better shape now than before Gibbs took over?"

The answer would have to be yes. We're better across the board, and in fact the frustration that we all feel is fueled by the fact that we believe that the Skins are better.

A skins fan calling for Gibbs' resignation, its a little early for that. I don't want to get back on the coaching carousel. I agree the lack of an offensive identity is a little puzzling and most certainly frustrating, but I like the stability of having Coach Gibbs back.

[VTSkins897]

ahhh i still have faith in gibbs. who knows how things will turn up? once this O has a year under our belt hopefully we'll be fine. the d on the other will continue to worry me.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Instant gratification? At the beginning of the '07 campaign Gibbs will have two more years left on his contract. So you have to figure, things will have to start cooking real soon for the Redskins.

Yes, instant gratification. We have to have fast food, faster cars, faster internet, faster computers.... it's the nature of how people live in these times...especially with the internet where any and all information is a button click away. The NFL is no different. Free agency can instantly transform some teams from last to first...building a team from ground up is not as popular as it once was, but building it from the ground up the right way - I believe - allows a franchise to be good for years to come.

I'd rather not have a Super Bowl season this year and know that the next ten years would be a repeat of the 90's, and have a team that is a Super Bowl caliber team for the next 10 years.

[hooskins]

Honestly guys, how much more success have we had with all the other coaches??? Atleast with Gibbs we went to the playoffs, and the players and the fans believe in something.

This is a stupid thread.