Wynn restructures

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Because if you want to go that route, Marcus Stroud had only 19 tackles last year. John Henderson had 38 (only a few more than Wynn in what you call his "has-been" years).

In Beem's defense a DE should get more tackles than a DT.

In your defense, while Wynn had "only" 24 tackles in 2005, Dwight Freeney had 29.

In my defense, Justin Smith had 45 tackles in 2005 (50 in 2006)

Holla at ya boy Dmek!

[MTK]

You can't judge defensive lineman very well on tackles alone, as some people have already pointed out.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

That could be said about any position on either side of the ball.

[Beemnseven]

For the record, Landry is probably the right pick.

Though I still wonder if Okoye will provide the type of help we could have used.

Marcus Stroud and John Henderson? They're starters. And I understand that sometimes, a player's contibution is his ability to tie up blockers while letting other guys make the tackle.

But I'd venture to guess that their playing time far exceeds anything Renaldo Wynn had -- so your comparison doesn't quite work does it?

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

For the record, Landry is probably the right pick.

Though I still wonder if Okoye will provide the type of help we could have used.

Marcus Stroud and John Henderson? They're starters. And I understand that sometimes, a player's contibution is his ability to tie up blockers while letting other guys make the tackle.

But I'd venture to guess that their playing time far exceeds anything Renaldo Wynn had -- so your comparison doesn't quite work does it?

Actually it does. Stroud had only a couple more tackles than Wynn while starting and playing almost every down the ENTIRE YEAR? Most would think that supports what I'm trying to say.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Actually it does. Stroud had only a couple more tackles than Wynn while starting and playing almost every down the ENTIRE YEAR? Most would think that supports what I'm trying to say.

But again, you are forgetting that Stroud and Henderson are more likely tying up blockers.

TMC, let's not descend into the absurd -- are you really implying that Stroud and Henderson aren't any better than Renaldo Wynn?

It is my position that for whatever Wynn's cap space amounts to, we could have virtually any other player who might be able to contribute more, even in limited action.

[Beemnseven]

No, my argument isn't based solely on stats. If he were the dominating force you describe him to be, Golston, Montgomery, and Daniels wouldn't have the playing time Wynn should be getting.

You think it would be impossible to find another player who could eclipse what Wynn could give us?

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I'd also like to say that I applaud the front office for their foresight at our linebacking situation. Who knows how Washington or McIntosh heal, so they actually got some "steals" in the later rounds.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

While I'm not comparing them to their abilities, your argument is founded solely on stats. I'm just saying that Pro Bowlers like Henderson and Stroud have similar stats. Wynn did the same thing they did, he tied up blockers.

And honestly, I would very much disagree that we could find someone to play as well or better for the money we're paying him. PRIOR to his pay cut, I would have agreed, but for now, I think he's a bargain.

[MTK]

Seems that the simple point here is tackles don't mean squat when you are evaluating lineman.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Right. I'm just going by what I've seen and what we've heard year-after-year from the coaches about his abilities.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I don't think it would be impossible, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find one. I think that any team we could FIND one on, wouldn't be willing to part because of the deal they're getting themselves. Again, I'm only showing him this kind of allegiance because of the fact he is taking the very minimum a veteran can get.

If he had kept his current salary, I'm totally in agreement with you in the fact he needed to be cut.

[Defensewins]

The coaches want to keep Wynn. That should be enough. They see more film then you do and are on the field up close. Plus add all of the practice time they evaluate how each person performs in practice.
You can never judge defensive lineman on stats.
Last year Wyn lost his starting job, we brought in a pure pass rusher #99 and we got less sacks and our run defense went to hell. Are you blaming that on Wynn? Why aren't you blaming # 99 who is making more money than Wynn and in the first half of the season was pushed around like a little girl.
I would rather give up on the pass rush DE # 99 who got just a few sacks last year and than be one of the worst run defenses. #99 better improve his run stopping abilities or he will be cut. He is making too much money to be a pass rush only guy.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

The coaches want to keep Wynn. That should be enough. They see more film then you do and are on the field up close. Plus add all of the practice time they evaluate how each person performs in practice.
You can never judge defensive lineman on stats.
Last year Wyn lost his starting job, we brought in a pure pass rusher #99 and we got less sacks and our run defense went to hell. Are you blaming that on Wynn? Why aren't you blaming # 99 who is making more money than Wynn and in the first half of the season was pushed around like a little girl.
I iwould rather give up on the pass rush DE # 99 who gots a few sacks last year and than be one of the worst run defenses. #99 better improve his run stopping abilities or he will be cut.

Then you have to make the argument that it might have been the person playing behind him... Why isn't Holdman still on the hook? It must be because he's already gone.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

The coaches want to keep Wynn. That should be enough. They see more film then you do and are on the field up close. Plus add all of the practice time they evaluate how each person performs in practice.
You can never judge defensive lineman on stats.
Last year Wyn lost his starting job, we brought in a pure pass rusher #99 and we got less sacks and our run defense went to hell. Are you blaming that on Wynn? Why aren't you blaming # 99 who is making more money than Wynn and in the first half of the season was pushed around like a little girl.
I would rather give up on the pass rush DE # 99 who got just a few sacks last year and than be one of the worst run defenses. #99 better improve his run stopping abilities or he will be cut. He is making too much money to be a pass rush only guy.

The coaches wanted Adam Archuleta. The coaches also wanted Andre Carter. So you basically destroyed your own argument.

Thanks!