Joyner: Cooley underrated

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Did you say Cooley was replaceable?

Yes I did. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy and I think he can be a top 5 TE. But he's not Gates or Tony G. I mean Gates is clearly the best TE in football. If Cooley were to leave ( I hope like hell he doesn't) we could go out and get someone who could do what Cooley does, or draft someone who has comparable skills. You don't agree?

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I'm assuming replaceable by another top three (top two for me) TE in the league? Also, remember that the Browns had NO receivers to speak of.

I agree that Clev. had no WR's but Winslow still had to get open to catch 90 balls. Very very impressive if you ask me.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Yes I did. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy and I think he can be a top 5 TE. But he's not Gates or Tony G. I mean Gates is clearly the best TE in football. If Cooley were to leave ( I hope like hell he doesn't) we could go out and get someone who could do what Cooley does, or draft someone who has comparable skills. You don't agree?

I most definitely do not agree. It's rare to find someone with such a combination of hands, blocking and running abilities. You're citing Gates as the best TE in football right now, but I'd have to differ in the fact that when you have the offense they do, it's easy to look good. While I think that Gates is top three, I think Gonzo is the best.

I'm also not taking anything away from Winslow, but if you're asking me who I'll take ANY Sunday between Cooley and Winslow, give me Cooley each and every day.

I can't even remember the best tight end prospect last year, but can you think of ANY TE that really tore up the league last year? If he was so easily replaceable, you'd think that SOMEONE drafted would even come close to duplicating his stats and I don't think that anyone did.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I most definitely do not agree. It's rare to find someone with such a combination of hands, blocking and running abilities. You're citing Gates as the best TE in football right now, but I'd have to differ in the fact that when you have the offense they do, it's easy to look good. While I think that Gates is top three, I think Gonzo is the best.

I'm also not taking anything away from Winslow, but if you're asking me who I'll take ANY Sunday between Cooley and Winslow, give me Cooley each and every day.

I can't even remember the best tight end prospect last year, but can you think of ANY TE that really tore up the league last year? If he was so easily replaceable, you'd think that SOMEONE drafted would even come close to duplicating his stats and I don't think that anyone did.

Cooley would not be easily replaceable. But it's not like we couldn't find someone who could catch 60-70 balls and 5-7 TD's. I think we as Redskins fans tend to think that our players are the best becasue they play for The Redskins, and we get attached to them. Ask yourself this question. If Cooley played for Dallas would you still feel the same way about him?

That is my point on TE's. No one really tore it up. Winslow had 90 catches but only scored like 2-3 times and didn't crack 1,000 yards. It's not a position where you need to make a huge investment.

[bedlamVR]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Cooley would not be easily replaceable. But it's not like we couldn't find someone who could catch 60-70 balls and 5-7 TD's. I think we as Redskins fans tend to think that our players are the best becasue they play for The Redskins, and we get attached to them. Ask yourself this question. If Cooley played for Dallas would you still feel the same way about him?

That is my point on TE's. No one really tore it up. Winslow had 90 catches but only scored like 2-3 times and didn't crack 1,000 yards. It's not a position where you need to make a huge investment.

Okay now you are on crack ...

One of my favorite Cowboys players has to be Witten.. he is a chain mover as is Cooley . I actually don't rate Gates that much, he is amongst the best in the leauge but he is esentially a converted basket ball player with limited moves, speed and has questionable blocking skills . What SD do well with him is ask him to go out there and esentially go for the jump balls .

You have the great TE's in history like Mike Ditka etc but they are often overlooked . In the Dallas reign of terror 92-96 I think the most valuble offensive players they had were in order, Aikmen, Smith, Novacheck, Allen, Irvin .

When I think of great TEs right now i like Ben Watson in NE, Dallas Clark as fantasy stud last year on my team, Jason Witten, Chris Cooley, Tony G - but only as a pass catcher, he is not the best blocker in the world, Vernon Davis - was ripping it up before his injury, and Kelen Winslow .

I also think the eara of the great TE is still to come but if you have a top flight all round skills like Cooley you do not let him walk because you simply cannot go out and replace them. It is a undervalued possition in the collages and NFL, often spare tackles who can catch get stuck on the end as a TE.

[skinsfan_nn]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Cooley would not be easily replaceable. But it's not like we couldn't find someone who could catch 60-70 balls and 5-7 TD's. I think we as Redskins fans tend to think that our players are the best becasue they play for The Redskins, and we get attached to them. Ask yourself this question. If Cooley played for Dallas would you still feel the same way about him?

That is my point on TE's. No one really tore it up. Winslow had 90 catches but only scored like 2-3 times and didn't crack 1,000 yards. It's not a position where you need to make a huge investment.

Yeap your on CRACK for sure.

First of all fans are attached to Cooley because he's one of the VERY BEST TE in the entire league, and happens to be a SKIN! As you can tell by stats witten has been getting his respect as deserved, but Cooley isn't a cowgirl so what's the point? If your Really Good, your Really Good doesn't matter what team you play for?

If you don't think a top TE in the league is a big investment, your dead wrong, just look at the top TE's contracts in the league, witten, heap, shockey, or any top 5 TE for instance, maybe then you'll understand a top TE in the league is starting to require a big check.

With that said Cooley is a premier TE in this league and needs to be paid accordingly in DC!

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Cooley would not be easily replaceable. But it's not like we couldn't find someone who could catch 60-70 balls and 5-7 TD's. I think we as Redskins fans tend to think that our players are the best becasue they play for The Redskins, and we get attached to them. Ask yourself this question. If Cooley played for Dallas would you still feel the same way about him?

That is my point on TE's. No one really tore it up. Winslow had 90 catches but only scored like 2-3 times and didn't crack 1,000 yards. It's not a position where you need to make a huge investment.

Seriously, if that was easily possible, don't you think that teams would do that on a yearly basis? There's a reason people lock TEs up to long term contracts...

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I most definitely do not agree. It's rare to find someone with such a combination of hands, blocking and running abilities. You're citing Gates as the best TE in football right now, but I'd have to differ in the fact that when you have the offense they do, it's easy to look good. While I think that Gates is top three, I think Gonzo is the best.

I'm also not taking anything away from Winslow, but if you're asking me who I'll take ANY Sunday between Cooley and Winslow, give me Cooley each and every day.

I can't even remember the best tight end prospect last year, but can you think of ANY TE that really tore up the league last year? If he was so easily replaceable, you'd think that SOMEONE drafted would even come close to duplicating his stats and I don't think that anyone did.

Cooley, Heap, Crumpler. No specific order.

Here's a point I'd like to bring up: Vernon Davis was the 5th overall pick in 2006, because of some incredible set of athletic skills regarding a TE. Now I want everybody to think about that for a second. A TE who is small and can't block but can run 4.3 and jump really high.

That doesn't sound like a TE to me at all. It sounds like SF drafted a receiver who was just playing out of position. Now, a receiver with 4.3 speed really isn't all that special. But this is a thought process that apparently never occured to the 49ers while doing this.

This is the ultimate proof that TEs are valued improperly. And while Antonio Gates is a wonderful fantasy TE, what exactly does scoring TD's prove if you can't block a lick?

Cooley, Heap, and Crumpler are all average to good blockers and smart receivers in the open field. Gonzo should still be in this conversation, but at this point in his career, probably is no longer the elite player at his position. Gates should be the No. 1 TE in fantasy, but when in comes to value to his team, he clearly is quite overrated.

Winslow>Gates, but hes not a wonderful blocker either.

[MTK]

Winslow over Gates??

Wow.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Winslow over Gates??

Wow.

Why not?

Disagreeing is completely cool but passing it off without even considering it is pretty foolish, IMHO.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Why not?

Disagreeing is completely cool but passing it off without even considering it is pretty foolish, IMHO.

Look at what Gates has done so far in his career:

265 catches, 3378 yards, 12.7 avg, 34 TDs.

As for Winslow:

94 catches, 925 yards, 9.8 avg, 3 TDs.

So why would I think Winslow is better than Gates??

I can't wait to hear this logic.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Why not?

Disagreeing is completely cool but passing it off without even considering it is pretty foolish, IMHO.

for the simple fact that Gates has produced way better in the league. And last year was the first time that Winslow was even on the field. Pile that on with the fact that the Browns had no recievers (Edwards hasnt shown anything) and no running game. Add all that up and you have got a player with inflated stats. Come on Winslow is not better than Chris Cooley let alone Gates.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by bedlamVR

Okay now you are on crack ...

One of my favorite Cowboys players has to be Witten.. he is a chain mover as is Cooley . I actually don't rate Gates that much, he is amongst the best in the leauge but he is esentially a converted basket ball player with limited moves, speed and has questionable blocking skills . What SD do well with him is ask him to go out there and esentially go for the jump balls .

You have the great TE's in history like Mike Ditka etc but they are often overlooked . In the Dallas reign of terror 92-96 I think the most valuble offensive players they had were in order, Aikmen, Smith, Novacheck, Allen, Irvin .

When I think of great TEs right now i like Ben Watson in NE, Dallas Clark as fantasy stud last year on my team, Jason Witten, Chris Cooley, Tony G - but only as a pass catcher, he is not the best blocker in the world, Vernon Davis - was ripping it up before his injury, and Kelen Winslow .

I also think the eara of the great TE is still to come but if you have a top flight all round skills like Cooley you do not let him walk because you simply cannot go out and replace them. It is a undervalued possition in the collages and NFL, often spare tackles who can catch get stuck on the end as a TE.

how can any redskin fans say the have a favorite cowboys player?this is.... absurd

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Look at what Gates has done so far in his career:

265 catches, 3378 yards, 12.7 avg, 34 TDs.

As for Winslow:

94 catches, 925 yards, 9.8 avg, 3 TDs.

So why would I think Winslow is better than Gates??

I can't wait to hear this logic.

there isn't any.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by dmek25

how can any redskin fans say the have a favorite cowboys player?this is.... absurd

3 months for him